Powerful Nothing
A Magic the Gathering Cube podcast hosted by Dan and James. Talking Cube and other magical goodness.
Powerful Nothing
How to run a cube event w/ Josh from Cube Clash
This week we're joined by Josh from Cube Clash, to talk about organising Cube Clash and what we can expect from the upcoming Cube Clash 3 in Birmnignham, along with his advice for anyone, on how to run a cube event.
Birmingham Cube Clash Tickets - https://www.tickettailor.com/events/cubeclash/1878248
Cube Clash Contact Info: cubeclashlondon@gmail.com
The Newman Holiday Trust: https://www.newmantrust.org
1:16 - Interview with Josh from Cube Clash
5:26 - Setting up Cube Clash 1
21:16 - Lessons learnt for Cube Clash 2
26:36 - The Newman Holiday Trust
38:00 - The cubes...
59:29 - Advice for someone starting a cube event
My Cube: https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/sweet
The Treat Yourself Cube: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/treatyourself
James Cube: https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/ba642a54-a6c7-4587-b97e-1d95429c59b5
MTGO Vintage Cube: https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/modovintage
Social Links: https://linktr.ee/toosweetmtg
Runaway by Diamond Ace | https://soundcloud.com/diamond-ace-music
Music promoted by https://www.free-stock-music.com
Creative Commons / Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported (CC BY-SA 3.0)
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/deed.en_US
Birmingham Cube Clash Tickets - https://www.tickettailor.com/events/cubeclash/1878248
Hello everyone. Welcome back to Powerful Nothing and Magic The Gathering Cube podcast. I'm your host, Dan, and as always, I'm joined by James James. How are you doing this week? Yeah, I'm doing well. I'm doing well. We've got a very exciting guest lined up this week. We do. Today we are going to be talking to Josh from Cube Clash. For those unaware, they have been putting on the largest cube events in the UK. Yeah, so Josh is a stalwart of the UK cube scene at this point. He's oh guys, I've been a huge part in organizing the first two Cube Clash events, which have been massive successes and really been the first events to, sort of centralized events for cube in the UK, which has been very, very good to see. And they're expanding quite quickly. The third one is coming up. It's getting way bigger. So it's a really exciting time for it. Oh yeah, definitely. This should be a really good conversation. And hopefully this should be something that everyone can get a little bit of something out of. If you built a cube, then you know that just building it is only one part of it. You actually need to be able to draft it. And one thing I know that Josh is greater is bringing people together. So hopefully we can kind of talk to him about that a little bit as well. But I think with all that, let's get Josh in here. All right. Marvelous. So on the line we have Josh from cube. Josh welcome to powerful. Nothing. Thank you very much. Lovely to be here. Marvelous. Yeah. Let's kick things off. Josh, what got you into cube? Like, what were your first experiences? My first cube experience was building my own cube. Which I don't think that's normally the way you get a cube, but it's about 11 years ago. So about 15 years. I was trying to remember how I learned about cube, but probably would have been the mtg. Oh, vintage Holiday Cube. So I just. Yeah, I've always liked game design and deck building, and I think I just got a load of cards together and built very Bad Cube in Birmingham, which is where I'm from. So I to play group there and essentially force them to play cube with me. And the first iteration was pretty bad, if anything. Like nobody really did, I think, before turn three, just because I like the big splashy stuff. And, I'd like to think the cubes I've got a bit better since then, but it was, it was. I can't quite remember, but it's been a labor of love, over a decade at this point. No, wasn't. And I would you say it's like the tinkering that kind of really appeals to you about cube. I kind of like the all the possibilities that can come from a larger toolbox, basically. Yeah. Without doing too much psychoanalysis, I always enjoyed making my own rules to the board. Games we played is good. So I think there was something around having the, it designing the world within which we were playing. And I organized my play group, Birmingham. And obviously I'm here today talking to you because I'm still organizing things. So I think there was something about that. Yeah. Creating a play experience and, and also maybe, maybe thinking I could do it pretty well, but I don't know, yet. I'm, lots of cube design is very, careful and considerate and the cubes of very well nurtured and everything lines up very well. Mind a bit more. How can a bit sort of. I'm gonna say vibe based. I think. Yeah. I'd like to set the vibe. No, no, I'm, I'm here for, for for a vibe based format. I do think like, one of the like a cube is very much a reflection of the person who built it, and also the people who play it as your main cube in the same cube throughout. Or has it been rebuilt? How would you describe your cube journey? I guess with your specific cube and with your play group as well? Sure, yeah. It's mode. The cube is technically still the same cube, and it's only had one change of sleeves in ten years. Which is, although the changes are now that much worse. I was trying to remember how many of the cards are still from the original cube, and there are still some survivors, but really not many. And I think the the playgroup, there's, you know, I had my play group back in Birmingham and we played at my house every, every Tuesday. We went between modern and booster draft and cube sort of kept it fresh, had a bit of a mini league going, you know, pizzas and all that. And it was it was the same. Yeah. The style of the social calendar every week. So the group still active in Birmingham, but they're not cubing as much anymore. So there's definitely my influence. And then three years back I moved to London and sort of started where I needed friends and needed to be working with, so started building a group. And that group is sort of now turned into to volunteer studying to cube that. It's an interesting, point. I think socially, there's definitely a correlation between people who build cubes and people who like to be the host. Yeah, I wonder what that is. It does kind of. Yeah, it's actually like actually organize for your event. Right. I think it's a good thing. I think the curse of any cube builder is having anyone to play your game. Yeah, I think kind of brings us nicely onto the first group. Kind of like what you've kind of described so far is a real kind of like grass roots roots in order to like, like, like you've run multiple cube groups, you've been involved in running those kind of things. And like, was it kind of a natural transition to try and run a larger scale cube event where you're kind of bringing different play groups together, as it were? Yeah, I think so. So I, you know, like I said, so moved to London three, three and a half years back. I needed friends, I need people to play magic with. So I literally sort of stalks magic crops and other venues where nerds such as yourselves congregate and just aggressively approach people with a smile and said, hey, have you cube? Do you want a cube? Cube, cube? And then basically kept forcing people to play cube. But in Stoke Newington, and yeah, yeah. From that, you know, my, my friends now in London, formerly from that initial group. But the way it sort of developed from that was I didn't actually stop telling people to come cube. So we had a play group, as I'm sure many of you listening do have your play group, but then you just get more and more people. And I think actually, what sort of transitioned it from just a group of friends into something more was that as more people joined, the sort of dynamics change a little bit and we got a bit of a competitive edge. And I'm sort of a little shameful that I didn't manage, you know, when it's the cube owners competitive edge that's also coming through, it's it's not a good look. So I learned many lessons and that but the dynamic definitely changed. Some new people came in who, you know, we just wanted they were a bit more of a spike than the others. So, that was one of my big lessons is, is setting the tone and setting expectations. But anyway, it definitely changed the, and then splintered a little bit at that point. So I think the sort of new dynamic, the, bit of competitiveness that was there made me want to put on, you know, something a bit more. Yeah. Back to back to what you said, James, about having people come in, you know, hosting the event so that. Okay, well, this would be cool if we get more people to to come and host and see what how this plays out. And like a semi competitive level, even though I'm a big advocate of fan first cube events. And then I think another big aspect is I'm, I'm doing a PhD, and I needed to procrastinate in a way that was at least mildly productive. Now I can I can feel that as, someone who's married to someone who's who's in the who's in the final six months of their VH day. The crunch time. It is the crunch time. There's an 80,000 word essay looming. Yeah, kind of like like, there's a nice point in terms of what you mentioned about kind of like, like in theory, I from your end, anyway, was kind of aimed at a kind of a more competitive scene because, like, there was definitely some competitive players at the first coop, but that's not what I kind of got out of it. For me, it was more about trying a bunch of cool cubes for the first time, and that's what I really got out of it. That's more my vibe is I am more of a I like to have fun. The winning is kind of it's nice, but it's not the key thing. But like, like I do feel that kind of one that one of the best things about the coop is that it does cater to those different types of people. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. And this fun first is really like, you know, work with, roots where, you know, it's sort of unaffiliated for wizards in a way where there's proxies as all this sort of thing. And it is. I mean, we've gotten to talking about some of the cubes later. They're not cubes that you can spike that cubes to enjoy. So it's very much how we've changed it. We've about six or kept a top eight structure and some minimal prizes, but it's very much about being there. And yeah, and enjoying the, I mean, that's the love of it. Isn't the wacky, crazy things that can only happen in cube that just cannot no other format can support them. And then finding all the intricacies. And that's where the tinkering comes in, I suppose. Yeah. Like, with the first cube clash, were you surprised how quickly it all sold out? It like I saw it in our discord, and then it was like, get it now? Otherwise you go, no, you're not coming. Like, yeah, yeah, like, yeah. I was surprised how quickly the event kind of sold out. And in such I was pleased. I was very pleased. Yeah. So it wasn't huge. It was I think 32 players. Right. So, you know, let's once you've got sort of three, four player groups turning up in most items, that's, that's you pretty much done really. But, I can't remember being surprised. I think I think that was a bit nervous putting something. Obviously there was, you know, the stakes were fairly low, but the result was the financial element as well. So it was great to see and it was just obvious that people want to come play cube and they want an event. That event actually didn't have that many of my, my own group there that everyone was busy. So that was cool to see. See other people. I meet yourselves, and I meet other people who, you know, the London magic scene is quite a strange place, I think, just by the nature of the city and and the spaces we have to play. And people have got busy lives and people are transient. So there's definitely. London is a great city for for this to happen in, as is Birmingham. Well beautiful Birmingham. But yeah, yeah, I was very pleased. Yeah. I think it's, it's a very nice event. Get all the other London covers together, because I think it is a form of magic for a lot of people, playwright and a lot of people really enjoy it. But that has never really been much of a centralized, confession. No. Oh, like structure or even like many big events until like very recently, right when, of C, cube called in America and, and now I've got your fine events. Kick it off. Yeah, but it's, it's very good to, like, actually meet other people outside of your immediate friend group who who are into it, you know, because, it's, you know, it's it's very easy to do that with most other forms of magic. And I think with cube, it tends because it is almost all like very grassroots that you're just keeping with people you, you hang out with anyway. And and it's yeah, it's really cool to like, meet with a play groups like that, I think. Yeah. I've been taught, you know, through discord, I've been in touch with people in the States running events, and there's been very kind people who have offered a lot of advice. But then also a gentleman in Germany and somebody in the Netherlands, so that, you know, they're also popping up in these other countries and give it a year or two years and we will have more of an international presence. Hopefully that'll be a pretty cool way to go. Yeah, definitely. That'd be awesome. And that's the thing. I know you said that the first one was only 32 people, but that was still the largest cube event ever in London, which is kind of wild considering the size of the place. Yeah. And yeah, one of the nicest things for me about the first cube was seeing all these play groups come together. Like there was definitely faces. I've seen that like a dark sphere or an action event before, but this was going to bring everyone together under the guise of cube, and that was really nice to see visibly on kind of the first event, like from a logistical point of view then like, was there anything that kind of like surprised you from an organizing point? Because like, like, you mentioned it was, the venue was that at the venue you normally were keeping at it? Was that kind of like an easy way to start the first one? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So it's loading bar up in and so engine. Yeah. And yeah, that's where we used to play it. We've actually sort of move now just because of the groups change and locations are different. But they were great at the bar in terms of had a good relationship with them. And I went to them and said, hey, look, I'd like to do this. And we figured out a way that it would work for them as well. And they were, you know, they were decent. Facilitating the space is good. The reason it's 32 is because that's really like the space that we had, the one couldn't really fit any more tables in, but it was definitely logistics. Yeah. I think us there's an element because because it is very I'm going to say fun first once again. But and it was the grassroots and you know, people aren't turning up to win prizes or anything like this. So I definitely felt a sense of sort of freedom in terms of not making it the most slick and professional event in the world. But I did learn some things, so I didn't use any tournament software, which that changed in Q2. And we're still using the, Hadron Archive. Is it the archive of the Hadron Network? One of them's a magic card, and one of them's great software. Yeah, I'm missing my notes. It's the Hedren network. It's by the team behind cube. GoPro. I love everything they do. I'm a big fan. Yeah, and the guy behind that is. It's Gwen over in in states. And he's is lovely to work with and is very considerate and provides great support. But that's been a game changer. So there's software I would recommend it. There's a cost attached, but it's a very reasonable cost and timings just it's always going to go wrong. They whatever you think the timings, people are going to take that time on the turns or this or that or it's just amazing how like watching the seconds and the minutes bleed away. And I'm not quite sure where they went. And then there are some other things like I made some unnecessary complications, like that's part of the the venue rent. It's sort of essentially to guarantee an upfront expenditure. We did a drinks voucher system. And so for that which was fine and it worked on that scale, but it was not necessarily yeah, it just made it a bit more difficult. And then there are other things as well which have because it was such a small event and it was grassroots and basically, I mean, I didn't know you guys, but we definitely had mutual friends and, you know, it was all word of mouth. So I could, skip out on some of the, you know, like the, the ticketing platform. So that was very casual. So all of that was worth it. That's going on what have now changed and professionalized a bit. And then I suppose to just, just one more is we, we had a judge and a sort of at the end of it was like, we don't need a judge. I it's not to it's not competitive. There's a bunch I don't quite know that magic. Right. And they can figure it out. So it's sort of sucked off the judges. Yeah I think with cube you are overwhelmingly going to get really experienced magic players who aren't trying to wrangle you, you know, so that I imagine most like 99% of the time, there's just not going to be any to right? No, definitely 100%. Like you can definitely see the improvements between 1 and 2 and some of those we'll get onto in a moment. But I still thought one was a really well-run event. And like, like, like there was things like kind of like as someone who's never thought about running a cube event, the kind of like you get there and then we start and you do like a speech at the start, and everything you're saying does make sense, like simple things that kind of like, like, like everyone leave your pool on the table. The cards do not leave the table. You count them in, you count them out. All that kind of stuff. Like, yeah, like you're using, like, we'll get onto the cubes in a circular, kind of like like just these are cubes from the community. The last thing we want is like one cars going missing, but also just from a time factor point of view, just like cars, like ending up in a different table or anything like that. Like we all basically use matte black sleeves so they can very easily get mixed up in that kind of stuff. That's just like, like even if things aren't going missing, or then, oh, there's nothing nefarious. Just like like the simple, simple things can cause headaches very quickly. We had one card go missing and it was just I think somebody put it in this sideboard instead of in the front. Yeah, but a big search later, like, oh, okay. Cool. Oh yeah. Definitely like the amount of times we've done Mikey where like a shot land has ended up in like the land box and that kind of stuff. It happens all the time. And then obviously when you kind of scale it up to multiple cubes, those things can be multiplied as well a fair amount of times. Trusting my cube. People have just taken that side for a time with them and then texted me the next day, you know, like it's I guess that's about it. This is actual event and hence the the counting in comes out. And then so the software as well has started as a function. You know, you take a picture of your pool and you upload it. So it did the same on the on the other side. So we're gonna, we're going to avoid any, any sneaky sideboards going home to the wrong places in. Yeah they don't. It does seem like pretty. Yeah. It does seem like a very nice like well it seems perfect for us before running a cube event if I wanted to, but you just. Yeah. Almost like it was custom built. Yeah. I mean. Awesome. Yeah. I'm just keeping it on. Keep, like, before we kind of move into some of the changes for cube to, let's talk about some of the cubes. So like specifically like like like like sourcing the cube. So I believe so that so 32 players. But there were five cubes for cube one. Yeah. Yep. So we we had four in the, in the main pool. And then we sort of rotated them for the second draft. And then we had the fifth cube for the top eight. So yeah, it was I mean to two of the five of my cubes. So that pretty easy to source. And then the others just came from friends. Right. So, so the other four cube, we had, George's vintage cube, which is always nice to have a five inch cube there. And then another friend gave, his very complicated game that I think that was one of the lessons. It's, it's a it was a beautiful work of art of the cube. But it was it was technical and it was obscure, and it was difficult. I think that was one of the learnings of, again, setting, setting expectations because there were I mean, it's a cube event. People have invested in magic, but nonetheless, some people found that, like, pretty difficult and maybe a little miserable to draft. Oh, so was that the, Illusions of Grandeur cube? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't get a chance to play that one, but that one looked really cool. And then, like, we have a friend of ours around the channel, firetruck modo, who has a, cube called the Blue Nothing cube, which is an awesome cube. But he said specifically he's never going to submit it to Cube Flash because, like the one of the side effects of the cube is that games last like an hour and a half, and that is like the worst thing. I appreciate him for an event where we're trying to get three cubes in a day and just keep that away. That's yeah, it's not for tournament setting, but it's it was a big learning for me that as well. And thankfully now I was about to say no, tell him to bring it along because things are better now. But but with with that timing. No, that timing is not not perfect, but one of the beautiful things, you know, the changes you said. And this is as it grows, this gets even better as we can have more obstacle cubes now. So we're going to have, you know, 20 odd cubes with the software. You can put cubes that you want to avoid. So as long as people engage with software, right. And they if, if they see, you know, the blue do nothing or what was something similar that they just do not want to but you know, avoid it. And then the fun disseminate the cubes to play. No. Exactly. Yeah, that's really good. I kind of feel that naturally moving on to cube two here. And and then that you started using the Hedren network, just having the ability to rank the cubes that you want to do and the cubes you want to avoid, like from a player's point of view, is just fantastic. Like, for me, as someone who's going into coop with the goal to play cubes, I may never get to play again like that is a really useful tool. And then also on the flip side, like on the second cube, I did let some cubes I didn't want to play, but those were ones I did on the first cube, so I was able to avoid duplicates. So that was a really nice feature that you kind of get from your network, but like, yeah, I'm assuming that's something that you must have had good feedback on. I think you kind of mentioned, like, I think I remember on the day you mentioning that like most players got either their like first or second cube choice. I think so. And add a little, request here for me for, for those of you who are coming to three or future events, if you're not really bothered, please don't put rankings. Maybe apart from putting those that you don't really do not want to do, because the future rankings are basically the more, the algorithm can kind of accommodate everyone. So if you genuinely don't mind what you play, you just there for whatever, please do leave it open. Because, you know, some people are are after a specific experience, but yeah. Yeah, I mean, that just he's done such a good job with the software and it it would I say also just builds excitement. You know, a week, two weeks before you get to see all these cubes, you get the little the cube Cobra profiles and you can take a look. And if you want to you can do some practice drafts and all that. And it's just, you know, it builds the, the excitement for the effect. And then you actually end up playing what you want to play. Yeah. So one of my cubes was featured at cube two is the reason why I actually have a decent overview section now on both my cubes before it was very moving, but I was like, oh, people are going to be looking at this. I need to make sure of it. It's like it, it's presented nice. So yeah, I learned a bit of HTML and syntax for the cube. Right. So I appreciate that as well. That's great. I think I just deleted most of the information. I was like, I think we'll figure. Nice. But yeah but but but cube so so I, we got larger. We went up to 48 people but also 13 cubes. So we only added 16 more people, but we kind of over doubled the amount of cubes was you want to talk about that because in the first queue we were, resetting cubes between like between about lunchtime. Was that, like quite a big learning point from your end? Of what I was thinking about. So I think a lot of the changes came from. So yeah, learnings rather than scaling as well. I thought earlier. So it's not necessarily that, things would be too difficult, like scaled up, like resetting the cubes. You know, it was a little annoying, but it's fine. Obviously people at the event would help out, and they did. Thanks to everyone. But for each cube, there's there's someone who's built a cube before and has shuffled it before. So, yeah, but I think that that specific change where we, you know, we added two extra pods, but then we we didn't run back any cubes. It was the one shot that I think for me is just again talking to the the beauty of cube and not it is this cross route. And everyone's got their own style and everyone's got their own ideas and their own version of what they think is fun and magic. And it's just trying to showcase as much as possible, trying to, you know, for Cube Designer, it's you want people to play your game and not everyone gets many opportunities. So it was great to to have, you know, give this opportunity a lot of people to have that keeps played by strangers and in this like really positive environment. So definitely it's, it's speaking. And again, you know, we're, we're up in that number again. So it's, it's to get a broader range of experiences and to try and showcase what is beautiful about cube, which is it's fun, it's silly. It's you know, everything's different. Every game's different. Every interaction is, is is new and fresh and you never quite know what's happening where yeah, I let's I guess it lets you have a bit more variety and a bit more niche cubes as well. Like if you're, if you're running them back more, more people are going to be drafting each one. So as a cube only it's like really narrow and only appeals to, a small subsection of the audience. Then it's that's probably okay if you, if, if you're not running it back. Right. James. That's my theory. So we'll see. Nice to see how that plays out. Yeah. Oh yeah. Definitely like it definitely feels like it brought out. And cube design is like the want to kind of showcase that cubes and showcase what they can do. Kind of like I put the Treat Yourself cube together off the cube glass one, because I wanted to do that. It went down mostly. Well, there was a brief worry where it's meant to be a slower cube, and immediately I find that one of our friends is turned forward. Pleasant can be as like, not it wasn't as intended. That's what it came for, you know? Definitely. Yeah, that's that's the beauty of it, though, isn't it? You know, you with all the intent. This is sort of why I'm like, vibe based, because I know whatever I plot or intend isn't going to be what happens. So, you know, I'll sort of I about there. People can pick it up and do what they want with it. No. Exactly. And one of the nice thing about Kubernetes, too, is that it also had a charity element. Do you want to talk a little bit about the Newman Holiday Trust? Yeah. Yeah. So we had to change venue. And we basically got a good deal with the venue to essentially have it for free as long as all the proceeds went to charity. So Newman Holiday Trust is a wonderful, wonderful organization. They've been around for a long time. Sort of 40, 50 years. And they provide one week holidays for children with additional needs. So it's an incredibly intense and enjoyable week. I've volunteered for my first holiday this year and it is quite special. Intense is the word for it really, really wonderful. It's, you know, a bunch of children, a bunch bunch of volunteers. So it was all 1 to 1 support, 24 seven for the whole week. And for the kids, it's all free. And it's, you know, they have just the best, best week full of activities, all these sorts of just everything. You can imagine that that a young child would want to do. We feel it. We really feel that week full of all these things. And then for the families, you know, a bit of respite, because a lot of the children have, you know, various degrees of, of additional need, and support. So it's been for charity that it's been gone a long time and they don't have any paid stuff. It is just volunteers. And it's a bunch of awesome people giving up a lot of time, a lot of energy, a lot of love, and really just bringing a beautiful experience to these children. So it was great to be able to put on a cube event, bring our community together, have an absolutely awesome day. Continue with that whilst also donating money to the Newman Holiday Trust. So we've for for this latest keep keeping us three. We have started on the on the ticketing side, an optional donation and a big thank you to everyone who has donated some money towards Newman Holiday Trust. It's yeah, it's a wonderful organization. If anybody wants to get involved and wants to volunteer, especially men, because there is, a deficit of male volunteers, please reach out to me if you can share my, you know, details. But, yeah, we're always looking for people. It's a wonderful, wonderful experience for for everyone involved. No, definitely. Like that seems like a really good cause. And the links to that and everything else we talked about today will be down in the show notes. So do make sure you check that out. But yeah, so we've had Q one, Q has two, both roaring successes. That brings us on to Q three. What do people need to know? Josh? The big, big changes were going on the road. As your wonderful intro suggests. We're going to Birmingham. Cuban actually is in Birmingham. And the reason is we are teamed up with pop nationals. So, great group of people who are running obviously support prevent. We're we're just sharing the space. It makes sense with both bus routes or, formats. And yeah, we decided to put on a big bonanza. So we're it's not the same event. It's two events, but it's one roof. So Birmingham is on the 29th of November, which is a Saturday. It's £25. We're going to have 20 plus cubes. We have three drafts throughout the day. The venue is Secret Space in Digbeth in Birmingham. Beautiful part town. Lots to do around the, there's food and drink available at the venue, and it's going to be the largest cube event today in the UK. So super excited. Ticket sales have been going very well, but there still are still some tickets, so yeah, grab them now. And that's the, that's the headlines. That's the headlines. Nice. And then importantly as well I can people. So some people might already be there for pop on that nationals but they might not go is as well as I hope. Are people still able to join. Q plus three if they've attended pop nationals and, things haven't gone. That's the plan as they would have liked. It's going to happen to some of them on Friday. Yeah. Yeah. So I do want to shout out that the Pop Nationals will also be doing other side events for people who question out, who might want to, you know, go and do that. We're not here to sort of poach each of those players, but but yeah, we will if we have a reduced on the day ticket that, you know, it's not as expensive and you can join basic form draft two is the idea. So if that is you commiserations on your loss, it's probably down to luck. Don't worry about it. Because the shuffle the desk is the shuffle. Always the shuffle. Yeah. Come come up chat and, can complete Q but then you'll never pull over again. Oh, you could probably pull up a queue. I'm assuming that that's probably coming up. So yeah, you can do it all. We'll do it all. For your height of uncommon and vast extends for other concerts at formats. And you've said. Yeah, we've got, we're going to have, mats for sale as well. Preorder them if you can. It's helpful. We're going to have excitingly pins. We've got these metal pins that are absolutely stunning. So two things James I think your your older pin actually. So we've got normal pins. I come out several pins for. Yeah yeah I think let's see I think I think James is currently still undefeated in the regular, regular season game. Should we call them in the rounds of Q before the top eight? Yeah, I will be happy with one thing. Yeah, well, we're going to try to play give out three opens. So we've got the logo and gold. If you've three open and then we've got the, the normal logo, which we're going to sew on the day. So you can't buy the gold glory that belongs to James. But and so just little shout out to Nick who's my co collaborator who has done all the design work. Beautiful beautiful play match the top eight play mark this time is featuring the Birmingham ball and it looks fantastic. And he's designed the pins and the logo and everything else. And I've very vehemently denied him a gold pin because he very famously on Q two, he went on 12. So. Yeah. Nice. Yeah, yeah, I, I've definitely found that, bragging rights is more important to Cubas than any actual prize. But if you can lord it over to people that you won the Cuban, then you, you have so much more that is more important than anybody then. Yeah. I got to play Cuba to, we have one drop out. So I stepped in, which was lovely. And, I wasn't my head was not in the games. The first Cuba did awful. I went own three, which is, you know, it's not a good look on, the organizer, but then the second Cuba three out. So I will be sporting my my golden badge. Oh, good. Nice. Yeah, you can tell I was there for five. I, my best record is not, but but basically as also, current like, arena powered club rankings also show that I am very much the builder of the two, and James is very much the player. So James will be. I wish you luck, James. Well, I feel like, I think the first card can't be maintained, but it's, the, the tough I if I get to, top eight to Eddie of any future q clash. I'll be happy. So is the structure still like, still similar to the last one. So, so so for people doing the whole event, the it is two cube, one in the morning, one in the afternoon, and then cut to a top eight afterwards. Is that still the, the that the layout for the day more or less slot slightly better. So because we have the venue for the whole day. Fantastic. Yes. One cube in the morning, second cube in the afternoon. There will be a cut to top eight, but everyone else is welcome to stay and draft a third time. And you know, the cubes will be there, dividers will be there. So it would be, you know, get a pot together. Fire fight will, top eight will be single elimination. And I think this year I'm going to do this, figure, I think the top eight will have a choice of three cubes collectively. Like the top, I can choose between three to to draft for that event. Oh, I can vote. Oh that's nice. Yeah, yeah. So we'll do a little vote there. But definitely there's the space. This time for three through Jeff's for everyone. So everyone's welcome to stay, be merry and do some two things at I also. Yeah. In terms of scaling up to that larger size. So I'm assuming this comes with new challenges. Like it's, it sounds like, yeah, every cube you've learned something like was partnering with with UK pop nationals the way that you got to the next step in terms of size, of size of events like, like with, was that how that kind of how the larger event came about? Basically, yeah. Very much. Yeah. So it's I mean, the big challenge for running a cube event of any size is, is the venue and the space, because you need a venue that's going to be open that is available for the whole day. You need specific tables, more or less. And obviously magic players, when they're playing magic, they're not spending too much money on the ball or not. So it's balancing all those things. So I, I definitely was intending to do further events, but probably a similar scale to keep that to. So when when the UK nationals came and talked about partnering, it felt very much like, yeah, this sounds awesome, sounds really fun. Let's let's do it. So it's it's been that this time there's, you know, a big a significantly more financial expenditure from my end to get the venue and software and play lots and other than this and that and that and thankfully my mum still lives in Birmingham, so they have to pay for hotels, but, it's been, there's been a new element this times. I'm like, transparency. I'm not making money off key. That's the second one. The first of the twins, the charity. This one. Breaking even is the plan. And then if not, well, I mean, I'm sure we'll break even and then. But it's going to put the money aside for future events, right. So it's, but it's been interesting dealing with like, slightly larger numbers. Everything else I think is, you know what? Use the ticket, Taylor, this time. And it's been really great. It's been known to pay for that, but it serves as good. Yeah. We'll see on the day. We'll see on the day. No. Exactly. And I, you know, as you mentioned, people can support and keep cash because again, it is a grassroots event. So by being there you are supporting it. But also, buy a play mat as well if you're going at all this helps. The big thing is, is you know, it's price that if it sells out, then we're good and we're good to go. So if you've already got a ticket, you might come along, you know? No. Fantastic. Another, challenge I could imagine kind of leads us on to our next thing I want to touch on is, is sourcing more cubes. How many cubes do we go up to in Q plus two? So how many cubes do we go up to in Q three? So I'm still in conversation with a few people, but I don't know about about 20 is the thing. But yeah, a lot of people have built cubes. A lot of people want that to be played. It's been lovely having conversations with, with different people. There's one that we've accepted that, is named after this. This guy's high school teacher ran a magic club back in the day, and this got him and all his mates playing, and he's named his cube after this teacher. And it's, you know, little stories that that really, really lovely. And what she was, you know, people put so much time and love and care and attention into the cubes. It's it's. Yeah, it's lovely to be able to be a part of sharing them. I've not really had a problem, you know, through the, the social channels and whatnot. I've said if you're interested in running cube, please get in touch. And we've had a great selection. You know, some really different ones in there. Somebody is beautifully proxied up 100 all with Optus. So that's a busy event. So that's. Yeah. Again, I mean there's still some room for cubes. So if if you're out there listening, you've got cube and you think it's a bit spicy, especially in touch. And if not for this event, then, then future events. Yeah. I think that's one of the things is seeing seeing everyone's different design ideas and, yeah, that's that's not been a problem. There's more cubes in there. Right. Yeah. It is. Yeah. I think I currently own four. I'm going to say one. Right. Two, we've never drafted because, well, one is arrived this week and the other one I built during Covid, I haven't got and I change the sleeves on the lands and don't have them. So that's. I haven't committed to buying 400 new sleeves yet. Yes. Can you give us any, like, spoilers? Is there anything in particular I kind of look like like, like from a design point of you, like you mentioned 101 on adopters. Is there anything kind of you can tease this with in terms of like the kind of like stood out to you, that looks cool to you or that you want to draft from the ones that you've seen? Yeah. So we've got the hidden text cube, which is coming, which is. Yes. At the text is hidden. Right. So it's cards from the early 90s that are pretty obscure. You can see, I think, the name of the card, the art and casting costs and what type of card it is, but all the rest of the text is hidden with these sort of inserts, the sleeves, and you get to reveal it when you cast it right. Oh, no. Okay. Yeah. So this is what I mean about some people might not be interested. So it's very it's very sort of that's very silly. So, so you don't know what the text is during deck building? Yeah. It's when it goes on the stack for the first time. Exactly. Right. Yeah. Right. Cool. If you're looking to spike, maybe leave this one aside, though. I think it depends. If you're looking to spike and you have excellent knowledge of the 90s magic cards, I think there's a very big chance for you. Yeah. Reset your your chronicles and your Fallen Empires performance. Yeah, yeah, we've got we've got a ball keep coming. So a ball cube is a cube without sleeves without tokens, without like counters, without shuffling. Pretty much. So it's sort of a very casual casual. The, so, you know, there will be scuffs on some of the cards and all that, but it's the cubes. Well played in bars quite often. This time it's going to be played at cube three. So this is quite exciting. We've got I'm going to shout this one out because I think there's people out there who will want to play it, but there's also people who will not. So got a original coming our rebalanced cube. And when I say rebalanced it's in a rotted. So the, have been changed. Not all of them, but some of them, and the ones that have been changed are marked. So it's very clear which ones are change. And some of the changes are like pound toughness, some, like casting costs and whatnot. So it's I've had quite a long conversation with the gentlemen about about the cube. Because I was a bit unsure whether or not, you know, because it's one of my rules here is to try and make things. Yeah. You set expectations, right? So having freshly designed cards, essentially in an event I wouldn't necessarily recommend, hence starting out now. So I think, you know, it's coming out was a love block. But it was the hardest issues. And I think some people would relish the chance to to give that a go. Yeah. That's that's a to me that sounds awesome too. I could see yeah I like I get that is the point of the ranking thing. You can you can make the event your own. So if that sounds cool to you you can do that. If that's if I can definitely see how having to learn new cards for the first time on the fly, like for some people, that is awful. But I, like my favorite format for it. It's cube, but it's also chaos draft. Yeah, I love that kind of experience of are we going to have a playable deck? Who really knows? And that I that won't be the case with that, because it is still a cube and it's being constructed. But the element of like, what are we doing? How am I working with this? That yeah, that does sound quite cool. I'm I'm here for that. And I think in reality, a lot of the cubes that kind of have a bunch of cards that a lot of people won't know. Right. And it's not it's not necessarily that different if it's a card that you've seen the name, but the text has changed versus a card, you've just never seen before. Right? That's a good point. I mean, they technically do that on arena. There's cards with the same name and I'm not slightly annoyed. Yeah, that's that widens me up every single time. Yeah. And it's but the problem on arena, right, is you just think that, you know, what all the cards do because it's arena. And based on that, do you, like, cast your knife and player land and it doesn't do what you expected it to do, and it's very irritating. But I, I feel like if you're going in with the knowledge that, that's what the cube is designed to do, it's these cards are clearly marked as well, so that. Yeah, yeah, one final cube want to show out is it's good gravy babies. And it's my good friend Tom's and he's he cubed with me. I got him into cube. And then basically he's a game designer and he what lectures games. And I got him to build a cube and he's put a lot of love into it. So it's everything graveyard based. All the different synergies, but it's it's a really cool take on the rules, but you just looking at your graveyard an awful lot, and it's a real nice to to use that as a resource, like the main resource of the game. And it creates some very cool and neat interactions. So it's that sounds very, early, I think. I think that one was a cube clash too. But I'm just looking at this like like it seems like there's been a bunch of cool upgrades to that. Like I'm looking at the ooh, Wings of gold. I love the magic card. A lot of the stuff that's gone into that one, though. Yeah, yeah. No, it looks like spectacular. I guess, let's keep the ball rolling in terms of, like cube, I. So for me, one of the best parts about cube is like, is, is getting to draft those cubes that like like from like it's to see different designers minds at work. One I, one that stood out to me was the Desert Cube from cube. I think it's been at both so far, and that was one that you put together. You want to talk about? It was the Dalston desert. The desert part means that there's you you have to draft your lands, but you want to talk a little bit about that cube because I really enjoyed. Right. Like, that was one of the things I wanted to do going into cube plus one was, which was to draw something completely out of my wheelhouse. And a desert cube isn't something we haven't played people I've ever really seen before. That was really cool. You want to talk about kind of that cube and how you kind of put it together a little bit? Yeah, I'd love to. So I'm I'm dropping it tomorrow. I, I've got it right here because there's some updates I want to make. So yeah, that's coming back to cube three. It's Dalston does it. I live in Dalston and Dalston. And I thought about Desert Kitchen. Just thought that's such a cool, cool idea. And, yeah, there's no basic Lans, like you said to the, the number of lands in the cube itself is obviously far higher than, than just on a cube, but it just adds those intricacies to the draft picks. So, in terms of sort of that is, you know, various ideas about, design. And the one that really stands out to me is the idea of, complexity budget. So you don't want to just overload your players with having everything incredibly complex. So that leaves me, I really like, you know, clean designs, but the card does something very similar. Simples are in the place. Have to put things together. So in the Dothan Desert obviously complexity budget, part of it is used up in people having to navigate drafting the land. And it's not just, you know, basics is there's a lot of tap lands in there. There's you've got to draft the lands, but you've got to draft the lands out of the correct colors to do that. So it's there's a lot of tempo considerations, the synergies amongst the lines and the other cards. There's some creatures I think I've got gatekeeper vine or something similar. This is what I mean by volume, but I've got a creature that will search out a land. But if you haven't drafted that specific land, it's not going to do anything. So like aside from that, the, the sort of the main archetypes, artifacts matter is an a plus one plus one counters. So sort of fairly basic. Strategies going on, but a lot of complexity. And it's really, really the pick watering of your lands makes such, such a big difference. And it's do you go lands first. Do you take the bombs first? What do you do? I think 1 or 2 things about the one thing about dogs there is that it's. I've not actually been incredibly harsh. So unless you, you have to really sort of train wreck and to not have enough lands to play. I mean, you still have to draft them, but that should be enough. I know some deserts, are very severe. They sort of really try and get the feel of they've been parched in a desert. The second thing I want to say about, desert cubes, which I find really, really interesting, is once you've done it a few times, you know what, for me is real quick realization that, well, all drafting could just be like, this could just be how magic is. And the idea that we have basic lands, you know, obviously makes sense because that's what we need. But it's such a clean design. But once you start it, you're like, oh yeah, obviously this could just, you know, it's like you're drafting your creatures, you instance, everything else. Why not draft your lands? And I think that's my favorite type of, niche design is when it, it just feels like it could be that like the main, the main zone is very clean. Yeah, I think it's interesting point. So I guess the reason nice cubes and not like that they live in ice cubes, have a basic land box is because cube came out of basic draft, and logistically it would be annoying for them to have to put enough basics into these two packs for you to do your basics. But yeah, for me, like cube design. Despite this, there's actually no objective reason why that should be a basic landmark. It's, Yeah, I've yet to have a chance. Structure does a cube. It looks very cool. Yeah, it's a very cool and very unique appearance. So what you were saying about the complexity budget does make a lot of sense. I think it's why things like Desert cubes and why, like the one atop the cube is it's so successful because it's just changing like one key element. Everyone can kind of get behind that. But if it was like, it's a desert, but also here's 20 interesting character jewel color archetypes that might make things a bit more tricky. Keeping it to like three. Like let's say like, yeah, like three key aspects or like three key strategies was very clever in terms of putting it together because people already have the oh, I have to draft my lands out. Now, what does Boris do in this cube? What does anything do like? I think keeping it simple works really well, that design sensibilities will bleed over to my my main cube as well, which I've called the Superior Fundamentals Cube. But that was a bit of a joke because. But it's now just the superior cube. You can be the judge of that. But I've, you know, been stripping away some of the, I'm gonna say complexity that isn't worth it. And that could be flip cards or that could be because I make tokens. Just things that, like add a little additional, game elements, a flip card. Great. But if you don't know what's on the back when you're drafting it, you you're not going to. Look, I'm very rarely seen anyone take a card out. So just little things like that that make it a bit more streamlined. And again, I think this this work clean comes to mind. Yeah, I think trying to reduce the number of things you have to explain to a play group before they do after cube is is a really worthwhile night time interactive moment of. Yeah. Oh yeah. It's, and in the middle of playing together a dual commander cube, that's. I feel like I'm really pushing up that, wall of. There's a bit too much complexity in the rules, and I think it will be fine for our play group because everyone's down for it. But, I think it is definitely pushing up on that edge of, I'm telling you, like ten different things about how commander code, identity and whatnot before we start testing. And I think I need to find a way to reduce that down a little bit. You know, not 100%. Yeah. I just stripped out, I know it's not cube, but just in command. I just don't play, like, things like the initiative anymore or anything like that. Just because it's to, like. Yeah, like magic has got complicated enough for my boomer brain. I like playing magic, not being worried about being optimal. Yes. I think that when magic is best, right, it's when the cards are simple on the face and you can understand what they do, but then you can use them in a lot of complex and interesting ways. There's been definitely a shift, I think, in the last sort of ten years of magic design to the cards on the face. So they're just a lot more complicated, which I guess is partly just because they've kind of made all the simple effects already. Right? And they've got to have someone else to go for that design space. But, yeah, it does mean that cubing in general is a much more complicated experience. If you're not familiar, of all the cards going in, I think actually just a real quick one that I actually quite liked what they've done with energy. So I'm not really a fan of energy, but when the The Modern Horizons three, it wasn't when they put a lower energy cousin that I thought was really cool that they could do essentially a load of fairly simple, clean designs, but it's just using a different resource. So they've almost like created a stepped design space where they don't have to go over the top with everything because it's using something that doesn't interact with the, the, the, that resources. But I thought that was a really interesting maneuver from them to, to not just have to ramp it up and have power creep and complexity creep, and you could just almost sidestep into a different, different card type almost. But yeah, I actually don't like energy, but I thought that was very interesting. Yeah I think okay. And then just off kind of works. But you can only do that so many times, right. You can't just keep introducing new resources. But yeah. No, I think the energy stuff was certainly some of the less egregious parts of modern versions. Free one of the cubes that I got to drop to. The last one that I really liked was the invasion block cube. Just so this was a cube made up of invasion block, obviously, but just seeing a whole cube of all these magic cards really stirred something in me. It's like like I generally find that I like. One of the things I like to do is because I do get, like, inspired to do things afterwards. So after the first one, I bought my Treat Yourself cube, which is like a doing baking as much as things after doing the invasion, brought to you by now building like a pre-modern old board or two because it makes me feel something. But like like you were also in that invasion book, cube. That was a really like it looked fantastic. It drafted really well. Yeah. What did you think of the invasion? What cube from from keep to. Yeah, it was it was really fun. So that's from my friend, called Eli, actually. So props to him for putting together. And we had a conversation before, I think he the the option to go. Where do you want the cube? So I've got two versions of it. So one is a bit more curated, which is actually what we played. And the other was a bit more, true to the original invasion block full of SIM cards on and playable basically. So I thought it would be better for the slightly curated version. And yeah, it came together really well. It's, you know, it's a fairly complex format. I didn't know it going in at all. So I, I didn't get the same, inspiration that you did from it. But I did get that awesome opening, opening the pack and be like, oh, okay. There's a lot to process here and a lot to figure out. I'll be honest with you, a bunch of the cards I've only ever seen in, like, Judges Tower. Like having to work out what Dead Ringers did. I think I looked at, I was like, no. And then my opponent played against me and explained what it's like. Oh, that's quite good. I should have taken that. But I had a few similar like. Oh, right. No, I see the power level of this card, which I didn't see when I passed it. I did, I remember one specific game. I can't remember who it was against. But it was I had a, you know, bit of a grind deck and it had, I think, three different pieces of removal in my hand. And they had three very mediocre creatures. That was 3 or 4 or whatever. But everything had like a really stupid specific piece of text like protection from this and, and this. It's very, it's very color specific, isn't it? It's like if you target like a red creature or a there's that kind of stuff. Just, just the way all interacted. I had all this removal and none of it did anything. I think I ended up winning the game, but it was such a such a puzzle. It was like a real light in a way that you just don't get too much from the new stuff. Because it is all like, yeah, protection from this kind of this and that. And, and everything. It's like fairly underpowered in a lot of it. So it know that's my main takeaway from that is, is that it, it was just this I remember sat there like going into the tank, which I'm, I don't often do. I think I'm again a bit of a like void bass player. So I'm like, oh this feels right, I'm gonna do it. Which works out okay. But this was like, oh no, this is this is super fun. I want to figure out the line. And I got a lot of satisfaction from doing that. So the answer three. Oh that's my three. So that's my goal. That's your goal Nice. Yeah. Yeah I think I was like I think everyone was just hoping to open flame tonkatsu because that seems like the best option. And that block. Yeah. Yeah. That causes not reasonable in the context of a Bayesian block, I imagine. I think there was a deck that was just built around playing and then bouncing and replaying flame chunks, which seems really strong in a format with, shall we say, like power crept creatures, I guess is the nice way to describe it. Also, a deck when you bounce flames and garbage. It sounds pretty awesome in any format. Like that's. Yeah, there's a lot of, there's a lot of like messing around with basic land types and that block, as I recall, like, and like other creatures cared about, like, if you have an island device and then, like, ways of changing the land types. And it was a lots of weird oddball tricks, I think. So I recall good vibes, no ducks. And like, I think like that's a good example of like the that's like a different type of cube that you can get at clash because like, you do see kind of like what people think of as a cube. Like like you will see like a power to keep that as we touched on, like yours is like an unpowered vintage kind of or like legacy kind of power level, that kind of thing. But you'll also have like think like more and more unique cubes, like like the desert perhaps. But then you'll also have kind of like theme cubes, like the invasion block cube. There was also like, like, Lord of the rings set cube. I think there was also like a among cat like block cube there. And yeah, it's really nice seeing what cube designers are putting together, because that is that ability to pick the cubes you want. If you want to do like more traditional, like power cubes, you can do that. If you want to do more like weird wacky cubes, like a desert, you can do that if you want to do kind of like more thematic cubes like the Lord of the rings set cube or the invasion block cube, you can do that. Kind of like everything is kind of catered for, and that's a really nice thing to say. Couple of last questions before we kind of get you out of there. Josh, one thing I did want to ask is, what advice would you give to someone who is looking to run a cube event of of any size, really? Yeah. So I suppose cube, if you want to get a play group going, I think the thing is, is consistency. So pick a day, you know, in the week, same day, same venue. Fire, fire the cube. If there's two people, fire the cube. If there's four farther give and then the trick is if there's more than eight or so for the cubes, you either have a cube that can accommodate that will bring to, but just, you know, get play good going to get people coming that that regularity. You know, everyone's going to make every week. But I think that is that's really important to to start building a bit of, like just people interested in the format and wanting to come back and, and really engage. So definitely get get you people around you do something regular. I'm just turn up and be there so that that consistency beyond that when, when you actually if you want to put on an event, it's the hardest thing I found really maybe the two hardest things is getting a venue and getting the word out. You know, there are people out there who want to play, the people who are going to travel, they're going to come to your cube event. But how do you reach them? I'm not big on socials. I've had to learn how to use discord. It's ongoing process. But you know, if what I'm good at is talking to people and, you know, building communities and building friendship groups and getting the word up. So, I mean, massive shout out and thank you to all my friends who have supported this as well. And, you know, I mentioned earlier, Nick, it's been a big part of it. Jack and Eli brought me back into the cube to I sort of brought some fresh energy there. So it's definitely based on those relationships. The same. The same with the venues. You know, the first venue was, essentially our local, game store that we're going to good, good relationship with them. They, they support us being on the second one. Again, it was through a friend that we access this beautiful pub that we got to play in. Third one here. You know, UK clash was reached out to me and and it's it's that sort of collaborative effort. So build the relationships. Just get get talking to the people really I think is the big one. And then I suppose also know like what you're doing and what your motivation is. So, you know, stress say that's grassroots and that's it's just fun for me. I like organizing. I like bringing people together. I like creating these spaces and these events. And I know my friends like these events. It's an enjoyable thing for me to do. It's also, in a weird way, this is how I'm interacting with magic largely these days. You know, I'm so not playing model anymore. Very rarely playing boosted. Reflecting on that. So for me, this is my magic outlet. You know, if you're if you're looking at it as a business idea, I'm going to tell you to go look elsewhere. But yeah. So be consistent. Make those relationships find a venue, figure that one out and set the vibe. You know, fun. First cave is is about coming together, doing silly things, having like, memorable moments and yeah, fun for the first. No. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's that's very important. Like like from my own experiences. Like like just organizing cube nights. So that kind of stuff is like it is very much like if you build it, they will they will come. People want to do, but it's very much it. I find cube is often the hardest of the formats to get into, because there's the initial entry point is like, oh, it's fine. It's a large amount of cards, you need a large amount of people, that kind of stuff. But like once you kind of start it, things do snowball very quickly is what I found people really like. People don't just cube once. From my experience, people come back for more, and that's one of the best things about the format. 100%. Yeah, I know there are people out there waiting to give, but Cube Birmingham is the place is the place to do it. So I have, last question for you today, Josh. What's in the pipeline for the future? So, so beyond clash Birmingham? Can we expect another event in London, for example? Or, you I believe you touched on you said the word Europe earlier, like I you don't have to like I'm not going to hold your. I'm not gonna hold your feet to the fire and like, demand like, like firm plans. Because I know these things are complicated. These things take time. But like, like, oh, what would you like to to be? I think it's a nice. It's an easy way of putting it. Like, what would you like the future to hold for you? Yeah, I don't know. You don't think well, but it's not going to get to. That's the fun thing, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. London. You know, I'm, I'm living in now. There's, there's loads of people there, so for sure, we'll be coming back to London early next year, I don't know how early, and we'll put on a few events in the year. I don't know the scale of the size. If anyone who's listening knows of a venue that's particularly well-suited or at least adequately well-suited, hit me up. I'm always interested in new places that we can we can play. So, you know, there's some places that we've, been scoping and had a few conversations with. So definitely will become to London. But another thing that I'm pretty keen to do just need to figure out some of the financial resources, but is to sort of go on the road but with smaller events. So probably 32, maybe up to 48 players and, you know, travel around the country a bit to some of our beautiful towns and cities and put on events. So I've got a good friend down in Exeter and he's, you know, spoken to his OGs and I've got some players up in Sheffield and whatnot. So it'd be really fun to, to. Yeah, go on the road with it a bit. So we'll see if you're somewhere, I mean, if you're in London or if you're somewhere else and this is of interest and we've got some people in Leicester, in Bristol. So feel free to reach out and we'll see what we can do. No. That's fantastic. Josh, thank you very much for your time today. Honestly, as someone who loves cube, I am so happy that you have taken this upon yourself to give us an awesome cube event. So, yeah. So from me and the community, thank you very much. Pleasure. And thanks for having me on. And it's been great listening to you guys, and really, really fun to to be here and hanging out with you and. Yeah, looking forward to cubing. Yeah. And been a great time. And yeah, I'll see you very shortly in Birmingham for your next top eight. No, someone has to be James. He needs to be stopped. Okay. I love you, James, but someone needs to stop your tyrant. All right, put me in the, put me in the 90s. He didn't text you. I don't know if I can do. All right, that's going to do it for today. Thank you all very much for listening. Do make sure you give the podcast a five star review. Tell a friend all that good stuff. Whatever you do greatly helps us grow and do new cool things. And again, thank you very much to Josh from Cube Glass for joining us today. I thought it was a really good conversation. As a reminder, cube Clash Birmingham is on the 29th of November. I secret space in Digbeth, Birmingham. There are still a few tickets available. Links to everything we've talked about today will be down in the show notes below, but until next time, it's goodbye from me and it's goodbye from James and we'll see you all soon. Goodbye.