Persist Combos in Cube - #73

In this episode we discuss the place of Persist Combos in cube, what you need to consider, and where to get the best out of them.

Card Gallery: https://moxfield.com/decks/x91RtnGuvU6MAuDuIHHkuQ

Time Codes:
0:47 - Topic Intro
5:30 - Persist Creatrues
16:41 - Combo Enablers
26:24 - Sac Outlets
41:19 - Support Cards
51:32 - What cubes can support Persist Combos
1:05:04 - Overlap Archetypes

My Cube: https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/sweet
The Treat Yourself Cube: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/treatyourself
James Cube: https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/ba642a54-a6c7-4587-b97e-1d95429c59b5
MTGO Vintage Cube: https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/modovintage

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Chapters

• 0:47 Topic Intro
• 5:30 Persist Creatrues
• 16:41 Combo Enablers
• 26:24 Sac Outlets
• 41:19 Support Cards
• 51:32 What cubes can support Persist Combos
• 1:05:04 Overlap Archetypes

Transcript

0:02

Hello everyone, and welcome back to Powerful Nothing and Magic The Gathering Cube podcast. I'm your host, Dan, and as always, I'm joined by James. James. How are you doing, my boy? Yeah I'm well, I'm well. Thanks. Wonderful. Yeah. We, today we have a cool episode for everyone. Today we're gonna be doing a bit of a package review for possessed combos. But before we jump into that, just a quick reminder. Please give the podcast a thumbs up, a five star review, tell a friend all that goodness. And also, we will try and touch on and describe every card that we mention. But there. But there is also a link down to a card gallery in the show notes below. If you want to load that up and look at the cards as we're talking about them, just might help out a little bit with some of the more complicated cards that we're gonna be talking about today. But with that, James, talk to us about persist combos. Yeah. So today we're going to be looking at a soft combo package, which I see crop up, and a lot of cubes. I think we've mixed results. And I think it's kind of misused a lot in terms of what cubes it goes in. So this is the persist combo package. So thanks stuffs like catch and thanks Madras fat cap SAC outlets. It used to be a modern DAC back in the day, and it now crops up in a ton of cubes. Yeah, definitely. I think one of the reasons why it sees so much cube play is because it's one of the cubes that has, oh, it's one of the combos that has a lot of redundancy. It's kind of why people like Split Green Kijiji, because there's at least two ways of doing it. In larger cubes, it means you'd like to see the pieces persist. It's kind of a similar thing. And there's a bunch of creatures out. It requires more bits than some other, like two card combos, but there's lots of redundant effects for it. And a lot of those effects we want to run anyway. So that's why I think this this combo has been quite popular, but it does have a certain place in a certain type of cube. And that's what we want to talk about today. Yeah. For sure. So diving into what the combo is and how it works. So persist is a keyword that was introduced back in shadow more, I believe. And persistence is a keyword for appears, a bunch of different creatures that says when this creature dies, if it had no minus one, minus one counts on it, return it to the battlefield under its own as control with a minus one minus one counter. So generically this is a fine value mechanic, right? You can your creature can trade with one of our creatures a removal spell that comes back slightly smaller. If it dies again, it's gone forever. Fine. However, we can have combo applications with this, with several different effects, which in some way prevent that minus one, minus one counter going on for creature when it comes back. So you combine that with a sacrifice outlet and a persist creature, and you can just go round and round and round. You can keep sacrificing the same creature. It's going to lead to things like infinite sacrifices, infinite death triggers, infinite. You can win the game from that. Yeah, I believe it was actually the introduction to persist that caused them to change the rules. That plus one person counters and minus one minus one counters cancel each other out. Previously they were two different types of counters you had to track. So that's fun. But yeah, possessed. Very cool. It does work. Quite. It does work very nicely as a combo. And also they were at time of recording shadow more is the next soul return to Laurent is the next set. They've already spoiled a card with possessed. So this is an archetype that will be getting new juice. We I, I'm looking at do Kaia the dawn that flips into a slow carrier of twilight and the backside of this card gives other nonsense creatures you control, persist and that's a card that's coming out soon, so expect to see more cards with persist in the coming months. So nice little prep episode before we kick off with some new goodness. Basically, I honestly had no idea this topic was so topical. It's, that it's all lining up. I'll I'll be honest, I only found out myself when I was scrying. Rolling creatures with persist to remind myself for this episode, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Expect to see some more. So that's all good. And yeah, James, one thing I kind of touched on is that this isn't normally a two card combo. You normally need three, maybe sometimes four cards for this to kind of cook off. What kind of cards are we looking for when we're, like, trying to make this combo work? Yeah. So it's a free card combo. That means you're going to want redundancy and you're really going to want the cards to do something when you're not combo like with them. You know, if you have a bunch of blanks in your deck that only work when you assemble a specific three of them together. Yeah, that's going to stick a little bit. And ice cubes, but fortunately, a lot of these combo pieces have a ton of other applications. Either they have crossover synergies with, other of a combo box types of a synergy archetypes, or they're just generically powerful magic cards. You know, you can say, play a fair game, and then you just have this, this route to combo, a combo finish in your deck. Cool. So from looking there is probably about like sometime somewhere between 25 and 30 cards at time of recording with possessed. But let's talk about the good ones. The ones that actually see some cube play. Should we touch on the kitchen things? James this is that everyone's favorite. Normally, lover kitchen. Thanks. Lover kitchen. Thanks. This is, This is has the upside of being a defensible magic card. Putting it back. Even if you were uncovering, like, not a good magic card to put in a deck in most cubes in 2025, if we're being honest. But it does. Stuff right is pretty good against aggro. This is a, free man. Free to, it's hybrid Y for green. So really easy to cast. And when you get into life so it's going to block something, something's going to gain you some life. It's going to come back. It's going to gain you some more life. Happy days. It does our combo thing. It's a relatively cheap process creature. So it's going to enable our combo really nicely. And crucially, it means that even if we're doing our combo and our sacrifice out, that doesn't kill them. And, our combo annihilate doesn't kill them. So, you know, we're not sacrificing something like a goblin bombardment is going to give us infinite damage right away. Well, the kitchen thinks coming back a bunch of times does give us infinite life. So now that doesn't mean the game's over necessarily. There are Dex, certainly Dex in a lot of cubes, which can win for infinite life, but it's going to be very, very challenging for my stacks. Yeah, for me, I think the bonus of kitchen thinks is three mana is quite easy to cast. You can get at one curve and also like realistically, the life like the infinite life is nice, but it's more just like it's a you're a combo deck. You're trying to buy yourself time until you can combo off like fully. So the life gain is nice with this because because effectively that that could be an extra turn. Or it's at least two blocks, plus a bit of extra life that can buy you the time you need to find the rest of your combo pieces. Yeah, for sure. For sure. It's Yeah, I think there definitely was a stage where you'd say, this is just a good card, right? I think we're slightly past that, but I think it is, you know, it still does something when you're not combo ING a lot more than, some of, certainly like for two mana persistent creature options. I think. No, definitely. But let's touch on one that is a little bit more expensive in murderous red cap. It's two hybrid reactors. Hybrid reactors for a two, two for a creature goblin assassin. And when it enters, it deals damage equal to its power to any target. And obviously it also has possessed. So the benefits of this one are that if you can assemble the combo with it, it can win you the game. It is one that damage can go face and it can win you the game. Obviously the downside is it's a little bit more expensive. Double black. Normally in this deck is a little bit tougher on the mana than hybrid green white, hybrid green white. But mother's red cap is probably going to see play if you're doing this archetype. James, would you agree? Yeah. This is Yeah. It's it's nice for it wins the game on its own that it doesn't require Sakala to do something. It can kill a creature on the way in, but it's four manner, and it's not killing that much, you know, having a stupid cop. This is not, But. Yeah, it's it's a card I would recommend including if you're if you're building the stack because, Yeah, it it's nice that it does just Kelvin. Exactly. And then two cards that we, that we want to touch on and putrid goblin and safe hold elite. These are both two mana two two creatures with possessed. The goblin is a is a black pit. The safe old elite has a hybrid white green pit, but these don't really like these are good because they are cheap. They can get in the deck and we love that, but they only go in this kind of possessed combo deck like AA2 mana two two. That makes A11 in 2025 is not cutting it, but it's nice that these are cheap threats that you can play on your combo chat. Like like, one of the things about this deck is that a lot of there are a lot of cheap, efficient creatures that do this combo so you can play them all in one turn. You can just dump your hand on turn five and win the game seemingly out of nowhere, and both Putrid Goblin and Save Elite are good in the decks that want to be, combo going off like this. But do I go with the James? Yeah, for sure. I think these other ones you include, if you're a little bit more committed to doing the combo thing, because these are bad cards outside of that. But, you know, if if you're really good at enabling the combo, you actually don't care about that, but you just want that the cheapest way to do the thing. And these are the cheapest fit you get. So they're good to include five easy to cast I guess. Like Putrid Goblin. Theoretically, if you are desperate, you could put a new out. You know, I was sick that stack, right? Because it's two sacrifices, but it's not good fair. This this is really the only deck that's going to be happy with that. No, I would I would agree with that. There is a touch on it a bit later. But there is like a cool little goblin edge to this deck you can sort of take we'll touch on that a little bit at the end. But, James wanted to talk about I can't I I'm going to guess you're a fan of this of talk to me about Glen Callender, arc mage. Oh, this card so sick. I'm. I swear, I sort of, 2015 Vintage Cube. This card was just unbeatable, you know? So good. I wasn't really sure anymore, but, it is still a very powerful card. Like, I've. I've for cards we have on this list. This is the most generically good card, I would say. So this is the last, three in a blue for two to fly with possessed. And you can pay a blue and sacrifice it to counter target non creature spell. So outside of this combo, you, you want to play this with five mana, see how you can cast it and have one blue left. You can for an hour and for a spell you don't. And you know you want. You can be selective about what you can do, right? And in the right matchup where they're all backed by non creature spells, this is self one vs grown task cards. You know it's it's kind of a worst thing your Titan can play if you're you're looking to resolve expensive non creature spells. The reason it's on this list it's it's not very good as a persist combo piece. Right. It's four mana and it it doesn't. When you've a game like mode this red cap does and work three when besides then when you've game, it does the thing it will. You can sacrifice it infinitely with an enabler, but it just means that you need something else that's triggering to, to, to actually end the game. So hopefully that's going to be like your sacrifice outlets. This may maybe something like Goblin Bombardment, which deals a damaged farm, or it might be something like you have a blood artist type effect sitting around. But yeah, so this is, this is expensive and it doesn't when you a game just off the, trigger. But it is a really good card, which may well be in your cube anyway. So self worth highlighting is, this is sort of an extra one you get for free sometimes. But yeah, it's very much a secondary consideration because it's not very good as a combo piece. And blue is generally not like a super common color for this tax being. Yeah, the colors does make it a bit tricky, but just on like the we will touch on power level on this cube. Oh sorry. We will touch on power level of the archetype in a little bit. But I do think that the cubes where this archetype is really viable, I'm gonna say Glen lander is still a good magic card there. Yes, exactly. Cool. The last one, I did was want to mention not because it's really for this debt. It it works in this deck, but it's a card that you will often see in cubes, and that is wood for Primus. It does have possessed. That's the big eight at eight mana. Six, six. Trample comes in destroy target. Non creature, permanent. And it has possessed. I'm not saying that. Like what? What I'm suggesting with this more is that this isn't in for the combo deck. But if you are doing the combo, you're probably going to have a big green idiot in your cube. So therefore why not in cube? Why not include wood for Primus anyway? Like it's not going to be your primary plan, but having it in the deck as a nice backup? It's not the end of the world. Would you go with that, James? Or is would for Prime is a bit too. Is eight mana too much for the low to the ground for each combo deck? Okay, maybe I'm talking myself out of it, but it does have persist. Yeah, I think this is a card with possessed but will often be in your cube. I agree with that. It's very powerful. I think this is a trap for the possessed combo player. Actually, like eight aces too much. You can't you can't be just trying to cast eight chops to combo with your eight top needs to win the game. On that certain, this. Yeah, this ain't it. This is a card for sneak attack. It's a card for flash. It's a card for reanimate. It's not a card, but this is combo. I guess for one time you could make an argument for why is. Imagine your. Because sometimes these combo decks have a bit can go into like self mil of recurring nightmare type space fight. So this is maybe a bit of a bridge card fan like you maybe want it, but folk find this because you want to get it back from the graveyard and and it has a bit of added utility because you could theoretically combo with it. But in general that this is not you shouldn't view this as a combo piece for this stack. I think that's fair, and I think that's actually a good lesson, especially as we are a couple months out of, in theory, a period where we're going to be getting, we may just get the one that they spoiled, but we could get another couple, we could see some more this which is like we've also seen them in modern. Right. So it's kind of a blanket statement to kind of future proof us a little bit as the ones that we like for this archetype are either ones that have a good ETB and effect we want. So kitchen thinks by this time murderous red cap wins us the game. Or they're cheap and efficient in and it costs like Putrid Goblin or safe old elite. Like really what we really want in this deck is like a hybrid white screen. One two with possessed like that would almost be perfect, but so, so so it's a so just keep that keep those in mind. If you're if you're listening, if you're listening to this episode sometime in the future when they've sold a whole bunch of cool new possessed cards from Return to Low End, etc.. Marvelous. But let's actually touch on. So those are our possessed creatures. James, talk to me about some of the cards that's going to stop the possessed working as intended. So the best way to put it, what cards are we combining with it to stop the stop the minus one minus one counters going on to it? Yeah. Generally I feel like building cubes. You don't want all of the mechanics to work as intended. Five five it fails you. Next I think for cube self mechanics in transit. Very boring. Personally. Yeah. So one of the key parts obviously is we want a way to stop that minus one minus one counter going back on our creature when it comes back. The first one of these we're going to talk about is Vizier of Remedies. So this is one. No, wait for A21. And it says if a minus one count, minus one, minus one counter would be put on a creature you control, you put that many minus one, minus one counters on that creature instead. And now just looking up to make sure that's actually what it says. It's actually what it says. That was from memory. Yeah. So this has the upside of it's cheap, it's easy to cast. It's a single white pip. White is a common color for us to be in this, and it's cool that it has the sort of secondary application with the voter through it. People who played modern and never will remember it. Devoted variances for mannitol. You can put a minus one minus one count to on to untap it. It's a pretty playable card. And this power level of cube anyway, so it's cool that you get a little extra combo for free. And then, it's how we're casting. I would feel. Primus. James. Exactly. Thank you again for the mana exam. We go, oh, it all. It's all coming together. It's all coming together. Yeah. Nice. I like this one because it has the crossover and it's cheap. Basically, it's outside of that. It's a bad card. So it's, if you're not combining with this card, it's. It's suspiciously like goblin pika. It very much is. Especially in the. And then it sticks out a bit more and white. Let me read another one. James. Similar a slow work out because this basically does a very similar thing. One the green two to there's no future human scout. You can't get poison counters could be relevant. But importantly, creatures you control can't have minus one, minus one count is placed on them, and creatures your opponents control lose, in fact. So this is effectively the zero of remedies. It doesn't, I believe, work as nicely with the ritual because you can't put the, counter on it. You can't pay the cost of on tapping devoted druid. That stops it, but this still works with the possessed combo. How we want it to. It allows us to infinitely Sackler possess creatures, correct, James. Yeah, exactly, exactly. This is a card I think has never been used as intended. That I hate this. In fact, axes did not turn out to be its main role. Yeah. No, this is similar to the survey is cheap. It's easy to cast. You lose that crossover with the devoted druid thing that has free upside of an extra point of toughness. That's relevant. Also, I'd say you're kind of you're almost always going to be green buy in these stacks and sometimes you're a bit more green black base. So arguably green is a slightly better color for this than white. But yeah, I'd say this is very much in a similar space to Vizier. Now that tracks, but then talk to us about another one. James. And a fan's a kin tree spirit. I like this one because this one has a bit of play, like in some of the other, in some more aggressive decks. But just to talk to me about this spirit soldier. Yeah. So this is sort of revenge of that scale vibe of this is a much better card when you're not combo. So this is white white for A22 creature and it says whenever another non token creature you control enters bolster one. So bolster is choose a creature with the least toughness among creatures you control and put a minus one minus one counter on it. So theoretically with this you can run into an issue where, the thing you need to the creature you're persisting is, is not the lowest toughness. But in reality, on the soul, the ones we talks about like, two twos that come back to swamp one. So they have to have lower softness. But I guess worth noting if you're trying to do the wood fold famous versus stack, this doesn't work that well. But yeah, this is yeah, a much better card in that you can put it in a wipe down pack. Perfectly happily, but white white on the two top is just kind of tough, right? I don't know, I, I find it tough. White. White. You're just not casting, as consistently as you want to. A nice iffy stack. So I would be nervous of it for that reason, but I guess it's if you think this is a solid inclusion, feel white. Why beat down deck for it's cool that you get to get another combo piece in mind without having to have a dedicated slot. Yeah, definitely. Like I would agree that like I would for me, this is a creature based combo deck. Like when we get to some of the enablers, like things like tutors, some of the support cards for this are more creature based things. So having all your effects on creatures is nice, and the fact that that it overlaps with a bunch of other decks, I like, like one cut, like I move on to our next card because it does work in with the combo, but it does fall short on attacking and blocking, I guess, is solemnity as an enchantment that says players can't get counters and counters, can't be put on artifacts, creatures, enchantments, or lands. So with pieces you just they never get the option to have a minus one minus one counter put on them. Telemetry is a very all in card. It is the definition of a do nothing enchantment. But semantic does combo with a bunch of other stuff, which is cool. There's like some undying stuff. I, I think, but even though I've just said that quick note, just don't put undying and persist in the same cube. It's a bit too much of a pain. Undying is the opposite. When they die, they come back with counters on them. Things don't combo as you want them to, and it can just. It screams people having two halves of a combo that don't work. So. But that's a little PSA for everyone. But solemnity. Okay, coming back to topic is a cool card. But very, very much all in like like like, yes, we're not super high on a card. Like, oh, like yes. Putrid goblin only really good in this deck, but it can still attack or block. This is a three man, still getting with this. You're spending three man, and that rabble master is still punching you in the face. James. Yes, for sure, for sure. The reason I put this card on the list is I think some of the other combo is a kind of cool, but, yeah, this is is worse as a combo piece of a stack from base to all the others. Yeah. Because it's, it's not blocking, but also. Right, to set up your creature combo deck, you're going to play a bunch of cards that find creatures and get them into play for you. And this doesn't work with any of them. You know, you can't be effing pots of this. You can't green stun xenophobic. You can't. Well, the Tucson put it on top of your library. So it's yeah, it's fine in isolation, like it's a combo piece, and it's, it's hard for them to kill, like, compared to a creature, but in reality, Yeah. I mean, if you want to do some of the other slam the C combo stuff, then it's cool that you got a combo piece for free here, but, I wouldn't include it for this stack. No, I think that's, And then the last kind of we're kind of. I'm going to group this next bunch together. Cards like Good Fortune, unicorn, Arwen Weaver of Hope railway Brawler and Gram golly, the generous. What if I see these do is these say whenever another creature comes in, it comes in with a counter on it. And that's kind of that's what I was talking about earlier about. But eventually that works how we want it to with the possessed creatures in that it counteracts the minus one, minus one. Like, yes, it comes in with a minus one, minus one that comes in with the plus one plus one, and it counters out and then leaves. So so it's effectively reset. That's very nice. So so so there's a bunch of these out there. They all kind of work quite nicely. These are genuinely good. If you're thinking of doing like an overlap with a plus ones on counter deck, for example like Good Fortune unicorn stats wise isn't the strongest. But if you're combining it with some other plus almost on counter synergy, it can be quite a nice little lever to put all their. Yeah for sure. I think these are cool. Yeah. The idea here is you're not having to dedicated as many slots as you otherwise would to this like veil. Way below especially is just a pretty legit card right? Like I remember talking about bam this out of you, it came out and yeah, I'm not saying it's better than Questing Beast, but like, you could cut Questing Beast of this card and that it would go in the same decks that people are requesting that you simplify. Right. So that's the second part of, that little combo. We have opposites creatures. We have our things that allow them to persist infinitely. Next up, James, we have sacrifice outlets. We need ways of being able to control when the creatures die, when the creatures die in order to trigger their effects and come back, and that kind of stuff. Like, what are we looking for from a sacrifice somewhere here, James? Like, what is your favorite of the many ones out there? I'm assuming firstly, free is very important. Yes. We are looking for a free sack outlet specifically here. If you have to pay mana, it does not capped. So what I'm looking for out of these is I want it to be cheap. Ideally, we want it to be a creature for the same reasons we discussed earlier, because, because that means we can find it with the same things that find all of our other combo pieces. And we want ideally, we want it to win those for game. So when we were discussing the process, creatures, like we said, the nice thing about Red cap was it wins those for game. Even if I sack out, that isn't killing them. But if we're if we're combo ING with something like putrid goblins say, and our outlet didn't do anything other than sacrifice a creature well, up to a goblin can go round and round all it likes, but, unless we have something else triggering. But we're not actually progressing the game, right? We can't really get all of those. There aren't really amazing ones that meet all of those criteria, but there are really good ones that meet sort of two of those three criteria and have a bunch of applications. Right. So I think this ratio is probably the best of the cheap creatures. That's a one man award. One the sacred creature scry one, as cheap as it gets and start sucking creatures that cry is like pretty reasonable. Anyway, you can put this in our StarCraft stack and it'll be good. It's not just for possessed. And, it's also kind of nice, but if you're if you live in this scenario where, you know you have a putrid goblin that's not killing them, when you sacrifice it, well, you get infinite sprays so you can at least set up killing them. Next turn right. So that's kind of nice. I tell you. Yeah. The cheap creatures think this is the best. There's also stuff like carrion feeder, but I think it's mostly worse. But as the upside of of. So you get infinite counters on it. So, say you have a big attack at the if, if they have one blocker, you're out of luck. And, I think that's generally worse and vice versa. I would say so in a similar vein. So so sticking with creatures for a moment, we have Warren Soul Trader, which is a cool little goblin that's two and a black, creature zombie goblin, wizard pay one life, suck another creature, quite a treasure token. So if we're not gaining life in some way, this doesn't technically go infinite, but it can get us pretty close to infinite. Or it can. We don't have to go infinite. We have to go to 20 damage. That's normally how this works, and this will normally get us pretty close to there. And if we are doing anything else, like if we're draining them for more life or like, like if we're draining for life or if we're gaining life with a kitchen vex, or if we're dealing more damage than 1 or 2, and then we can kind of get there with this. And what's nice about this is that it makes us mana to have explosive turns to cast off spells. Like worst case scenario, this and a putrid goblin is two extra treasure that we can have an explosive turn later on in the game. Like. Are you a fan of Warren's Ultra? James? Yeah, I think this is cool because it has of a combo applications, right? You can do stuff with, say, grateful. Can just go round around for while self-guided and that's pretty cool. And, it's nice when your combo pieces exist in multiple combo decks. I, I'm a big fan of if you'll get a two creature combo, kind of commit to it, do a bunch of them, and then you justify all these the pieces to set it up. And yeah, it's so it's cool when cards exist and multiple combo packs. Yeah. This is not the best psych outlet for possessed, because you kind of need something that's getting you life or dealing damage to go with it. But it's great if you have cats and thanks. And, you know, maybe having a blood access or something, in which case valor works. And then another creature that's just very good. And like, I'm assuming your more throne position kind of gets into the conversation chains just because it's it's just a really good creature that also has some sacrificing it. But I'll read it now and you're coming through and position is two black black for a two for that in creature human cleric there's protection from humans which will come up, pay one life, sacrifice another creature. But a minus one, minus one count on up to one target creature and draw a card. And it has, black, black to start a card. Proliferate the proliferate. This. This seems a bit more kind of like Swiss Army knife. Oh, is this just a massive, visceral sear? James? Is that how you're viewing this? I mean, I think you also have this incredible card, like it's just one where this is already going to be in a lot of the cubes where you'll want to run this, like, I you know, if you're running out of scraps in your cube, for example, and that has a lot of natural crossover stacks, let's go back from that stack out that, this is kind of the best aristocrats card, right? Like just that has ever been it. I think it does so much in terms of cube. It does so much for you. Like. Sure, it's for mana, but it's, it's throwing you cards as a free sack out like sack. A creature draw card is just everything that tag once, and it's killing that creatures at the same time for cards, kind of ridiculous. Like, the only reason you don't see this card in a ton of, like, powered cubes is because we have a stack. That stack isn't good enough. It's not that this card isn't good enough. You know, it's, that this card is kind of cracked, so it's going to be in a lot of cubes anyway. And it does the thing to a certain extent with possessed like, and again, you'll need, you know, to go actually infinite. You'd need something like a kitchen thinks it is costing you a life every time. But the thing is, if you have a putrid goblin instead say, oh no, I could only activate this 15 times. I only drew 15 cards and killed all of my creatures. Like. And now I think I think you're probably doing okay in that game. Yeah. That's a yeah, that seems pretty good. So kind of like those are the those are the creatures that we're going to touch on I think like, again, there are a bunch more free sack outlooks on creatures out there. But the things that we're kind of we're trying to highlight with these is that we either want them to be cheap, we want them to be making us mana. We want them to be digging us through our deck as well. So like, that's why I like to scry on viscera seer or the draw card from your mouth really kind of come in clutch. They're kind of helping us find our combo bit. So that's kind of the that those are things we're looking for on the creature side of things. Let's move over to some non creature ones. James. That difference will become more important when we get to some of the support cards, as I've alluded to things like creature tutors. But talk to me about goblin bombardment in this deck. James. Yeah, if you didn't care about it being the creature, I think this would just kind of be the best one. And it's great. And loads of other attacks, right? So Goblin bombardment is one, a Redfin enchantment sack, a creature deal, one damage to any target. So this is just a good card. If you have stuff to sacrifice, you can you can kill the little creatures in cash in your guys. It's this one card. Combines in disgusting ways with a Johnny in the Castle fire as well. But, you probably shouldn't put that card in any of the system that I keep, to be honest. In this, in this stack, it does everything you want, right? It's, it's cheap, and it just kills them. There's, There's no there's no extra room to jump through. You're not having to pay life or anything like that. If you have this an obsessed creature. No, wait. Some counters going on, they're just going to die. And if you don't have the whole combo set up, you can like cashing in your. Your features for damage will also be a relevant thing, right? You can pick off ax ones. You can, you know, block and then sack your creature, kill something else. But this is just a powerful card. Yeah, 100%. I think Goblin government bombing was one of my most improved cards over the last couple of years. Just as there's more things that I do dumb things with it. But yeah, love them. Love coming about. And and also, it isn't importantly a way that ends the game as James is touching on a similar type of effect. It's altar of dementia. This is two generic for an artifact that has sacrificed a creature title player mills cards equal to the sacrificed creatures power. So similarly to kind of when we're talking the end of this creatures about why something like murders red cap gets in because it when your combo going off it wins you the game. This does this does it do with this. You can instantly I mean you can mill out yourself for some reason, but you can mill out your opponent and win the game. That way. It when this deck really takes is when one of the three pieces wins you the game. And you don't really get that with the with the with the things that muck around with the process counters. Like like negating the counters. It's normally either the sacrifice outlet or it's the, possessed creature itself. And also dementia is a very, very good way of winning a game because you are going to mill out your opponent. It has less or it has some utility. In terms of getting you to the combo, like if you like, James touched on kind of doing some cool recursion stuff, maybe in this deck, maybe you are leaning into black a little bit more. You there are builds of this deck that use the graveyard as a resource, and then you can reanimate your combo piece or something like that. Maybe, like dread return, bring back something like I could come up with something great, but something like that. There are recursion spells that work from the graveyard as well. So. So you can't be quite all in with Altar of Dementia, but it is a cool little, lever you can pull with this deck as well. And it is nice that it lets you win the game while you are in the middle of coming up. You don't need a fourth piece, as it were. Yeah, I think this is a really good one. Yes, I will have game on spot is color smite is cheap at you can build yourself to set up recursion is a cool angle and it's it fit for some some combat applications outside of a stack as well. Like, I guess the only downside is if you're, if you are trying to build your phone now, you can run into issues that things like jazzy, but it's not a huge consideration. Also, I guess technically with this, right? Because, it's just a different screen trying to build them out and something like this, which is infinite. There is something like brain freeze, which is is going to be finite. Because this is actually infinite if I have an LG, theoretically. So every time they shuffle in their deck, it's in a random order, right? You can theoretically just keep going until yeah, I'll just use the bottom card and and then they have a turn right. So that's kind of funny. But yeah. No, this is a good card. I think mostly where I'm at with the psych outlets is, and the reason we've given you a bunch, right? We've not just said visa for free. Best ones. We play for ones that do other stuff in your queue, you know? Like, maybe you include one like this person that spent more, like, specific for a stack, but, I think generally like, say, the ones that fit in your queue because, like, for mostly work, you'd want these. I want one that wins the game at least. But, yeah, in general, I think, Trying to have some crossover here because you don't, you know, you always want to limit the number of cards which only go in one deck, right? And, I think this is a good opportunity to do that. Oh, I definitely agree with that. Kind of like, for those who have kind of seen this archetype in, say, something like, commander, people might be wondering why we're not touching on a card like actual Zoltar. That's a three man, artifact. The exact. That is a free sacrifice outlet to make Humana. And that's a fine card, but it's more common that way. You want to be making, like, lots of manner. That's not really where cube is. We want to be ending the game, or we want to be finding the pieces to help us end the game. That's not what it isn't really as good as that. So. So you kind of like again, keep these things in mind when you are thinking about what pieces in which type of card you want to include in your cube. There is a fourth part of this. Like if we have something like a kitchen, like if we have something like a murderous red cap in there that can win as the game. If we have the altar of Dementor in there or the bombardment in there, that can win us the game. But there is a fourth card you can add to this deck, or there's a fourth file, a fourth type of card you can add to this combo. If you don't have those bits. And that can be nice to again have these cards in the deck. But just because they overlap with some of the cards in the deck, and that is blood artist effects effects that drain out a player whenever a creature or a creature you control dies. Now, ideally we wouldn't be going up to a four card combo. I was talking about commander before four card combos. Very commander, but in a cube that is supporting sacrifice outlets and fodder for sacrifice outlets, blood artist might blood out of blood artist or blood artist adjacent cards might just be fine cards so so including one as a another as another way of either stabilizing you or getting or taking out an opponent. And while it's also working with a combo is a thing that is worth mentioning. Yeah. For sure. I would say if if you don't have other good uses for that access type effects in your cube, I wouldn't add them for possess combo. I would make sure that your possess combo package has enough ways to win the game. But if, if you know you're surpassing aristocrat, so you're supporting some of the other combo decks for one blood assets, then, that then it will be a relevant piece for this stack, if you know, of, you know, if some of your scholars don't win the game and, you know, you're trying to combo off with a putrid goblin or whatnot. Cool. So we've got, combo James, we have some of these cards in our cube, and we've dropped to some of them. What else do we need in order to support them? Because in an ideal world, we'll draw the stack out. Let that that surprise us to the real, possessed creature that strikes us to the combo base. But things don't always work out that way. Things can come out. Some things that come out of the deck, out of order. What type of cards can we run to help us make this deck more consistent and actually make it more powerful? Yeah, this is the key part. I think this is the part I see a lot of cubes missing, which, of trying to support this specific package. Right. It's a three card combo, a three card combo for stuffed dice. Hoping to just do all this stuff in the right order. And Castillo cards is not a winning proposition. You'll end up just playing bad cards in your mediocre creature deck and losing, you really need to be very good at finding these pieces before this becomes a good strategy. Okay, so how are we going to do that? I think buffing part is a really nice inclusion here. And just just such a set card. Right. Proper, proper magic cards. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's, and this is, to be fair, this is the power level of Cube Fly. I'm pitching this deck as well as, in this in the Q in this off Q for this, this combo. But I think what is a good catch, right. But the cool thing about buffing pod is it is naturally synergistic with persist creatures inherently. Right. Like you stack your possessed creature, you go get a more expensive creature. Your obsessed creature comes back. You can do it again. That's just like a fairly good value play. But buffing pods like in a well, if you've built your deck correctly, The pod will basically assemble your whole combo for you with like Eddie, create almost every creature as a starting point, like you have a you have a birthing pod in a fin tail. Now that will eventually get you to your combo. Right? Because you go like you parted to your possessed creature, you suck your creature, you go get your free can, like wet or whatever. You will get that. But I mean, more realistically, right? It's like I do one part of the combo I can like part for another part, and I get it back, you know, this sort of does it all for you. It. Yeah, it takes some time. It's expensive. Be mindful of, like, a model. You're deploying your combat to be all your combo pieces. Do you have good ways to get them back? You will need them. You know, want to end up in a spot where, like, oh, they killed one piece, I put in play, and now I have no way to access that. But, Yeah, pop pod gives you access to your whole life in a while. Bell pod tech fights that that this is a very good way to set up. Yeah. If you want a bit more information on pod, we do have, we have an episode where we did a deep dive into build arounds. Pod is a great one, and it really layer. Yeah, it really does shine in a deck like this. And in a similar way, since birthing Pod James, we've had a number of different variants, shall we say, including, a card called Birthing Ritual. This is one, the green one. Enchantment says at the beginning of your end step, if you control the creature, look at the top seven cards of your library. Then you may sacrifice a creature. If you do, you may put a creature card with mana value x or less among those cards onto the battlefield where x is one, where x is one, plus the sacrifice creatures mana value. But the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order. So this is definitely a homage to birthing pod, but we get it on our end step. And what's nice about this is that we get to look before we sacrifice. So seven cards. Digging seven cards in a cube deck is a lot of cards. We can really, we can really dig and find the bits that we want with this card. And also if we have any type of curve or any kind of persist which is out, we can pick off the one that we want in order to play the card that we're going to be getting from our deck. Yeah, birthing, which all seems like a really cool one in this upper deck. James, would you agree? Yeah, I really like it. It's, it's, I guess slightly worse than Potter. If all you care about is assembling this combo. But it is it. It is a much better cut. I hate to say it, it's a better card for us. And like the nice contrast, right, James? Now like it's true, man. Earn is free to actually agitate. Man. Yeah, it doesn't up your combo quite as reliably, but it's just naturally synergistic with Pacific roots in the same way that it's a great value engine. Like the decks you put these in. Again, to have a lot of features. These cards are going to work really nicely. No, that seems very good. Oh, as it, pains me, you're probably correct. I mean, I think birthing ritual is in my Cuban birthing pot isn't. So maybe that's the sign. Yeah, where we are, but is sad, isn't it? One's an icon, one's an update, and one is banned in modern. So clearly birthing pots better, you know. Yeah. We go. Yeah okay. Yeah. Yeah. But which was the fixed version okay I like yeah. Yeah. Two cards that I think are worth reading together are Ella, Damaris Cole and Worldly Tutor. These are both creature tutors. These are both nice cards that effectively the creature combo deck kind of can just get like cards, like Demonic Ritual that some cards, like Demonic Tutor are very powerful. They're taken very highly in high powered cubes. But the danbury's cool. That is the green and, white for an instant search, a lobby for a creature card, reveal that card, put it in your hand, then shuffle and Worldly Tutor, which is a single green for an instant search, a library for a creature card. Reveal it. I'm going to look it up. Yeah, you got to reveal it. So don't wait for a creature card. Reveal it, then shuffle and put that card on top. So these are both cards that realistically only the combo deck is going to get so. But but in that deck they are very good. These let you skip the whole oh I need to scry, I need to draw. The card is like if you start with like effectively these are the other half of the combo or the other third of the combo in your hand whenever you draw them. That can be really, really powerful. In a deck where it's not a two card combo, is a three card combo, maybe even a four card combo. If, if one of the bits wasn't opened, maybe in a larger cube. So. So these really can actually just tie the room together and if I when I was able to possess combos, I think I've had both of these in my cube to really look like like like specific like, well, the tutor is a good card. It goes in cubes because it can like help you do your flash stuff and stuff. But like that down, which is cool because it is that, two different colors of mana in the colors of this deck. It's effectively it is a is a signpost card for this deck that it is there. Basically that's how I view other than is school nowadays. Yeah. That checks out. Yeah. These cards are great. They just add so much consistency and it's cool that I, like, I think a lot of cubes. I kind of want to run this off come this solve combo. Probably don't want to go up to a power level of something like a demonic tutor or a, or a vamp, and it's cool having tutors for specifically the creature combo deck get CS. No, I would agree with that. Keeping it with creature tutors. Talk to us about survival of the fittest. James. One of my favorite cards in all of magic. Why is a Bible that is good in the Creature combat deck games? Because it says such a lively foot creature. And put it into your hand. And you can keep doing it. Yeah, it's very repeatable. I am, yeah. No, survival is great as a survival. If, anyone's in there, I guess it's one of the green infinite enchantments. You can pay a green discard a creature card from your hand, search library for a creature, reveal it, put it into your hand. You can keep doing that card kind of cracks. It's. You're also often going to want to have ways to recur creatures from your graveyard and mystic as well. Like just because you know people will kill your creatures and person. You love them in play. And my obviously combines nicely with that, but this is just powerful as well in terms of I get to turn my Elvish mystic into my condo piece. Right. And that's that's yeah, I think we want to do. Yeah. Also, if like birthing pod powerful card. We do like it like this doesn't this has no correlation when times of like manner up or down, you don't have to do any kind of deck building constraints. It's just have a creature in hand. And that's that inner creature combo deck where a large portion of your deck is going to be creatures. Phenomenal magic card. Yeah. Absolutely. Love it up. And then different to that change. So like we're going to have a tutors talk to me about Malevolent Rumble. This is more this seems more like is this just like brainstorm in this deck? Would you say like, like read this malevolent rumble and then tell us what we're doing with it? It's everything. It's like brainstorm, but it's also lotus petal and elvish visionary. No. So Maleficent one is one. The green for sorcery. Look at the top for put a permanent into your hands and the rest go to your graveyard. This is an incredible card. I'm. I've. You haven't met me. I, I think this is the best mono green card and power cube of moment, and I think that that's how good I think it is. It's, it does everything you want. It's, you get selection, you get acceleration. You even get a jump blocker if you want to, the card is great. For this, mystics really well feel pieces. It gets you mana acceleration. It gets on the board. This can also just be a stand in, because of a powerful look at the top x, your library for creature, right? Like, once upon a time. So I've created this deck as well. But, yeah, these, these powerful selection spells that that hit creatures, just going to be strong here. Yeah. And the fact that it's permanent as well means that, like, it's not dead, even if you have some of the combat speed, but if you don't hit a combo bit, getting a land. So you can curve out is also fine. Yeah. I think, the best mulch ever printed. Better say yeah. Mulch is sadly showing its age old. Nice. So so kind of like we've kind of gone over the different bits that kind of you need to consider. For this deck to appear in a cube. I kind of like the bits you need to, like, really. See that you need all of these bits in there if you're drafting the deck as well. But let's actually kind of take a step back, James, let's talk about the type of cubes that this can go into because. Combos sound powerful, am I right? Like like like a plus B equals winning the game. Like when we think of combos, we think of busting and powerful things, but kind of like that isn't that isn't really the case with process combos. Is it? Like they like. But this combos is a archetype that has been tried for a fair amount of time. Now. I feel as I say, we have the data on where it belongs and like, how do you feel about pieces, combos and cubes as we come to the end of 2025? Moving in, moving into 2036? Yeah, I think for very cool. I think the interesting thing that's fun to draft, I think they can be powerful, but it needs to be in the right environment with with the right tools around it, you know, and it needs an environment that gives it a little bit of room to breathe. I think, and because I don't think this is very limited to persist combos, I think this is just true of creature combo in general. I don't really think feature combo works in higher power level cubes. The thing is, for three mana plus creatures now are so powerful that you you kind of have to kill them all anyway, right? Like, there's so many feel for amount of creatures that snowball. And when the game if left on unchecked basically by himself. But why would you put features which need to both be in play at the same time in order to do something? You know, it it kind of doesn't stack up, right? So I think for the creature combo stuff to be good, you just need to turn down the gas a little bit. On how good for standalone fats are and that also lets you kind of turn down how just how efficient for a mover list. And yeah, I'm not saying this has to be in your, you know, like super janky. No one does anything until ten eight cube. But it does. I would say if like Bhagavan, Bhagavan the not fighter and yo cube and dismember and acid and your cube van, cats and things shouldn't be, you know, it's it's more than that. Like when LSV was talking about the arena cube recently, like he was saying, oh, st is a pipe. And I don't think he's wrong. But if we're in a world where outside is like a super high pick, that is not an environment that is nice to. Yeah, as you mentioned, to creature base combo decks and like, like and yeah, as you mentioned, it's because these just creatures have got better like very, very like it's it's almost like an exponential curve. The last couple of years creatures have got better. And it just means that kind of like you don't have a in more hype, power level cubes and more streamlined, efficient cubes. You don't have room for things that aren't streamlined and efficient. Yes, exactly. Exactly. And you know, I'm not trying to say like one of these cube experiences is better than the other, but I think it is fun to build cubes where, you know, you have to put something together. You have to yo cards on all winning the game by themselves, you know, and, I think, yeah, you need that sort of environment fight before before you're interested in assembling a, a three card combo. Why then? Because the thing is, it's not just a three card combo that, you know, you can say and, you know, brain freeze lines. I Diamond Underworld feature three card combo. Right? But that you can do from your hand in the same turn for a shockingly low amount of mana. This if you're after, if you're running it all out on the same turn, that's it's going to be a lot of money, right? It's not going to happen badly if you're playing them out early, obviously very vulnerable and even if you do play them in the same turn, like your opponent is going to have creature removal in that deck, some of that's going to be instant speed. They're going to have opportunities to interact with this so often. How this is going to play out AI is is you. Your deck needs to be able to grind a little bit, right. Yeah. You're going to play some pieces. They're going to die, you're going to get them back, you're going to find more and and this is why it's important that your cards are like not terrible. Like, because you can like play a fair game and but but your end game is you assemble this combo. Right. And that's what finishes the game for you. Know. Definitely. And I really don't want people to kind of think that we've spent all this time talking about this combo to then be like, but it's completely unplayable because that's not the point of this at all. It's just combos are very, very cool, but it is just finding where they sit. And just the more I meet, more people who play cube, the more like I'm saying, like like like the more I'm saying things like cube flash and just experience more cubes. There is so much more room for cube than just the top end power, and this combo is something that really can find its place in a bunch of different cubes. I thought that like like like if we did have to give it a power level ranking. James, where are we thinking if like it's not vintage, are we saying like legacy? Are we saying like a modern power level cube? Like we're kind of where where are we falling? Where would you say the thing I have with all these, classifications now, right, is, I think fate got a lot closer together in reality because, like, because of modern horizons, basically. Right. You know, you know, ocelot, fide, vagabond, and these are all exactly. These are all cards. I don't want them cubes, to be honest. So I would say it's it's it doesn't have to be. I say the A combo for mid power level cube. And it's going to be a cube where you're not, you know, you're not running people over by by ten four. And the removal is is sufficiently, is correspondingly toned down. Right. Like, I don't want Fury to be in this cube. Because it's it's going to be a sad time. But if, if, if this things true, if y'all. Cuz I think this is a really fun deck and, I'd also just like, argue for I, you know, people want a variety of cube experiences, right? I would argue for building some, you know, if you're building multiple cuz I argue for building some cubes like that because I think they have a different play experience. Like, you know, I'm not like moaning about the concept of a higher power level cubes, but, that that's for a different episode. Yeah, exactly. I'm not saying I wouldn't do that. I'm not doing that right now. But they do kind of play out, and there's quite a common pattern for them now. Right? Because they've got pushed in that direction by, by stuff like Modern Horizons and, that very powerful, cheap, fast we've got, I think having, having some cubes which are not about that is is, is good for like, you know. No, I'd agree with that. Like, so. Yeah. So like I can only have two cubes. Spoilers for next week's episode. It's about to become three. I'm expecting, but, but yeah, my second cube is the perfect environment for this. It's just I'm trying food in that slot. Like, in the absence slot that this combo would fit in there very nicely. Like, I have aristocrats in there, but, like, I could slip in some position features and it would not be an issue and it would work. But yeah. Yeah, I do agree with that. There is one other point I'll place for this I wanted to touch on and that is present. A lot of the cards that we have talked about, Commons and on commons like think like kitchen thinks motors, red cap, putrid goblin, safe hold, delete. Those are commons things like, an offense like an offense is now an uncommon. So is good fortune unicorn. So is Grammarly. These are all uncommon like viscera. See isn't uncommon. So things like carrion feeder like is is goblin bombardment and uncommon goblin isn't uncommon. So you can build a pretty but like you lose some of the creature tutors. But that's probably fine for that level, that power level. But like, I personally think that kind of like gem peasant cubes, this combo is really nice that because because you also don't have access to many of the other combos like like spin to do it and like need to find another example, but like those involve rares for now probably. Anyway, but like like like cat, cats like a thing with Seelie that involves rares and mimics their. This is a great like this fits it ticks all the boxes we want from a combo for cube. That's why we're talking about it. There's a bunch of redundant effects for it in every slot, and there's enough of it in peasant to make the deck work, while giving an environment that doesn't really get these type of combos, these type of combos, which I think is really cool. Yeah, I really like that idea. I think has it and it gets it gives you the time set up. So that's good. And I'm a big advocate of like just because it's a lower power level cube doesn't mean you and you can only do fast stuff. You know, you can just have combo stuff, but it takes a little more time together. I think this is a really good candidate. Yeah, I really like that idea. Nice. And one of the thing we kind of, we wanted to touch on in terms of the the type of cube that we're, looking to include these and I like, do do you think that kind of like having other creature base combos in the cube helps, the persist combo existing? Like, if people are in the mindset of I need to try and build this combo, like, like, oh, if people are, like already in the mindset of kind of like, oh, I'm going to try and combo off in some way, like, like, is that kind of a good home for all of these pieces where like, like there's a bunch of other combos games, kind of like combos out there. Like, do you think they all kind of fit in one? 1 in 1 place? Yeah, I really I think if you're doing feature combos, I really like leaning into it. You know, There's the thing that lets you do that is you, you need all these setup cards around for creature combos to make them work. And if you're only doing having one little combo, like it's finding on two, then that, you know, glued all of them and, it if was if you include a bunch of different creature combos, you get to include all those cards, see, play and it also lets you take those cards early and with confidence that you will find something to do with them. You know, you're not going to be like, oh, I've got all these great tutors and I've got a creature in a lab. I just never got that final piece, you know, because you can take your academics, call on your buffing pods and spec on some combo pieces and have some confidence for at least one of them will pan out. Right. And there's a bunch of other creatures combos you can include in this case, I can have stuff like healers walking the list, stuff like for the to druid combo we talked about for, this cost of, scary oak combo is good first, like Blow and Soul Trader Crave crawler stuff as well, like Saphira dos. Shenanigans where you, these are all cool and in fact on those and they all have a ton of overlapping pieces, right? So I really like just chuck all these in ease and, and, and a bunch of creature tutors might set them up, and people will make some decks out of them, you know, I think it will pan out. And honestly, I think it's kind of a more interesting thing to do and be like, Queen y AB sounds baseline. Just, you know. Hey, Celeste. Neoplasms as long counters or linear tokens or whatever. Like, there's all types of fine, but, this is a little bit different, you know? No, I agree with that. And like some of those it will dovetail with as well. But yeah, having it be a obsidian is we're getting wacky old abs on. We're doing a thing. We're doing some combos I think is quite nice and just going back to the one thing I did mention is just make sure you don't have any numbers in there, like things like the, yeah. Like I mentioned, the undying creatures with the possessed creatures, they don't really interact how you want them to just make sure of that kind of thing. But there's plenty of websites where it just list combos with cards. Just. I mean, it's literally how I built the the combo section from my triggers after it was just like, oh, this card works with this, but it also works with these three other cards. What do these three work with that makes you kind of you're looking for like a spider's web of things that work together basically is the best. It's the best way I can describe it. Yeah. For sure. For sure. Give the people the tools and they will make something work. Yeah. I think avoiding combos that look like they should work is especially important. I like the, I think Melora devoted to it is kind of a classic one of these. Yes, that's a real pain, if I'm honest. Yeah, it really looks like it should work how you want in it. It just doesn't. Yeah. So one last thing we kind of want to touch on is like. But we did mention some archetypes there. But let's kind of just really follow that up with like where does this archetype overlap. Like how can you realistically include because like there is a world where like like one thing we touched on is just like is just raw dog, including persistent like like the three things we need like, like just including four possessed creatures for sake. Outlets for things that work with persist isn't really the way that this deck functions like you need, but like like for me anyway, I think it works best when all the bits at least are not like like at least are defendable in another deck, but like like like putrid Goblin can't just be there as a blocker. You need to be doing something with it, I think. Anyway, so like, a couple, like some of them are going to be obvious, but we've already touched on them. So things like aristocrats, if you have like aristocrats in your cube, but this combo gets a lot better because you're already going to be running the psych outlets like all the psych outlets in this cube, all the stack outlets that we've mentioned you were going to be running anyway. So therefore it's rather than like you need to run these three different types of cards, you only really need to add the persist creatures and the payoffs. You don't need to add the subclass, add the stuff that it's like that is much nicer. Like like would you go along with that? James yeah, I think that's the biggest overlap fight because yeah, all the psych outlets work. Plus like if you have an issue with your stack out not winning the game, you'll even have like blood artist type stuff in the queue for free, which, which might end up running. No. Nice. And then a tricky one because you still really struggles with its identity and cube is is counters like some of the creature base ones, things like good fortune, unicorn things like, weird things like railway brawler. These are fine magic cards, but but again, as I mentioned earlier, they get better if we have like an also list there. So if like other creatures get two counters, if our safe cat Cobb this in this deck as well for some reason because it's good starts getting like gets a bunch of has some additional synergy as well. Things like that. Kind of like I again, additional synergy to really tie it together I think will work quite nicely and like counters again. So so aristocrats was giving us the sacrifice that floats that the person on the puzzle counters deck can give us the thing, the effect that negates the persist. And that can be quite nice as well. Yes. For sure. I think, yeah, I think it's good in invert. You, you get a bunch of these effects for free. I would say the, the one slight difference is that the aristocrats stack want a good cheap sack out. Let's. Yes, it is very pieces to stop here. Them, you know, minus one, minus one. Countless going on like plus one counter stack. There are some that that deck does want, but it's not for cheap ones. Right. It's not Vizio of Amadeus. It's not Mileva. It's, Yeah, it's good fortune unicorn which cost free manner. It says, when we've Pope which cost free mana. Oh, it's, an offensive which theoretically costs two mana, but you can never actually cast. Yeah, a lot of those. Yeah. Good fortune. Unicorn famously a three. Manitou two. Yeah. Like it's, So I guess what I say with this, right, is that it's there is it, it is synergy. Because, you will get to have more pieces in the cube for work in that slot, right? And if you don't get the good one, will, maybe you get an owl when all of a, well, white ball or whatever, and maybe that's fine or you get a bit more redundancy. But I would advocate for like still having one of the two mana one. So at least you know, and they like so I think it's fine to have like 1 or 2 slots where it's, this is just for this stack, right? That, that just can't be all the pieces. No, I'd go with that. The last one I'm throwing, I've added last minute as a bit of a curveball because I think it's cool. Is there is a bit of a goblin overlap in this archetype, which I think is rad. Again, not one for every cube, but it's cool when I want to talk about it. You have enough creatures. Oh, there is a goblin package that does all the possessed creatures, and then you get all the benefits of being a goblin deck. So obviously Putrid Goblin is a persist creature. That is a goblin grom. Golly. The generous. I'll actually read this one as we didn't read it earlier. Graham Gulley effectively, Graham Gulley is one. And, gruel for A33 letter creature. Goldman shaman. Whenever another non-human creature you control enters, it enters with additional counter on it. So that is our negate the possessed creature side of things. And then we have slinger Lieutenant, which is a sacrifice outlet that wins us the game. It is not loading it. It. I bet I can do this from memory. It is void of lack for A11 goblin. I reckon when it enters, it makes two more goblins to read. Which tokens? Yes. Yeah. And you can sack a goblin to deal a damage to an opponent. Oh, no. It's better. Target player loses one life and you gain. Oh, there we go. But that is our infinite, but that is our free sacrifice output that wins us the game. So with those three cards, you do have a infinite persist combo. And it's all with goblins. You do also have Warren Sole Trader as a nice little back up. It is a goblin as well. Which is quite nice. That one is. That's on the Mason's Treasure. But then to tie it all together, we even have tutors. We have things like Goblin recruiter one, the red one one would enter such a like befriending them of goblin cards. Reveal them and then we will put those cards on top. There's a bunch of that. Like there's like as goblin matrons, I think stooges for one card up. Again, I am not saying, James, that we are that arena powered cube season two. I want some Goblin shenanigans. But that's kind of cool. Like, like like there will be some cubes that like that will be the correct level of way of doing this. Kind of like doing it as, like a cool goblin. So I like there are some other cool goblin combos with things like skirt prospector and like fecundity to draw you a bunch of cards, all this kind of stuff like again, niche. But I think we're in a world where like the next time I personally proposes combos in a cube, I kind of want to be doing something odd with it. And, I'm here for goblin fun. I think this sounds cool. Yeah, it's not really something I'd thought about, but it does mean I get to cast Goblin Recruit Cube, which I'm really for. They're all also, comments. Oh, shit. There we go. Okay. That's hot. Okay. Peasant goblins. You're welcome. Nice. I'm also infested in non peasant fashion. When I get to bashing pot away, my squeak and my squeak comes back, you know? Oh, value. Okay. Yeah, yeah. And maybe we like the top of a curve is a mucks us. That's a no. Yeah. That sounds cool. Sounds like that's something you could do. Yeah. See that's more and that's one of the cool things with this combo. And like because to an extent only the possessed creatures are set in that they have to have possessed. There's a bunch of other free sacrifice outlets out there. There's a bunch of other payoffs out there, dude. Like, as time will go on, we will find more cool things and like, yeah, the Goblin one might not be the most like the most raw power level, but I think it's fun and there will be other ones out there. And again, we have a new low end set with some passive stuff on the horizon. Let's see what we get like. But like I'm very intrigued to see what this. But like hopefully with this episode, we've kind of gone over what you're looking for from your individual bits. This, this, this episode will still be relevant even after more cards have been printed, because we know if there's a new possessed creature, does it fall in the bracket or is it cheap and efficient, or does it have a cool TV? If so, we can consider it to that kind of stuff. And I think that's yeah, that's one of the nice things about this combo, is that it has the flexibility to do some interesting things that kind of surprise you. Yes for sure. Yeah. I think the goblin thing is a great example of like there's different directions you can take this which overlap with other different archetypes and I'm really here for it. I'm just googling, cool goblins. Now, can I interest you in goblin search and protect your combo? That is. I'm. I'm also quite dumb, James. We also talked about murderous red cap. That's a goblin. Anyway. Yeah, yeah. Capsicums a bunch of this stuff is goblins. Can you say goblin? Obviously a goblin. Also would like stuff like slime. Fuck and squeeze is a goblin, right? And that's like, like, gets all your pieces back. Ooh. And it's like, pretty nice for buffing, I think. Like, like, how do we feel about just like Jund Goblin combos, you know, because there's also goblin idiot where and get like gets activated abilities for top card. I feel like if it's a goblin like if cause. Cool. Yes. That's it. Yeah, yeah. Is it Snoop? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Conspicuous sneak. Sorry. Yeah, something like that. Okay, I James, I'm going to end the episode there before we derail ourselves by talking about goblin combos anymore. But if you want to hear about Goblin combos and you're listening to this podcast, do make sure that you subscribe to the channel. Give the podcast a five star review, give us a thumbs up, and maybe it's more than likely now that we actually have this conversation, we will talk about cool goblin combos at some point in the future, because I'm kind of here for it. Yeah, it sounds dope. This is, I know what keyboard bottlenecks next might have, and they have stupid goblins in that tight. Right. All right. Awesome, James. Pleasure, man. Thank you very much. Yeah, it a pleasure. All right. Nice one. Thank you all very much for listening. Until next week it's goodbye from me as you buy from James. And we'll see you all soon. Goodbye.